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6 yr. old with knee swelling

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  • 6 yr. old with knee swelling

    I am looking for help for my 6 yr. old son. He is not having this problem right at the moment, but I expect it will happen again, and am hoping that with homeopathy we can make it so it won't happen!

    7 months ago, and also 6 months before that he has been awakened by pain in the early morning, around 6 am. His left knee, greatly swollen, his leg stiff and immobile. The knee feels full of fluid but it is not red or warm at all. The most recent time he just laid flat on the floor, and screamed with the slightest movement. It was very scary for his dad and I. It was much more severe than the first time it happened.(which I can describe if you need me to). We took him to the e/r, they did blood work and x-rays. No sign of injury, also they were testing for juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. The blood test were negative for rheumatoid factor, negative for ANA. They gave him the diagnosis of JRA anyway. By the next morning the swelling was gone.

    Physical description: my son has fair hair, blonde turning to brown,large green eyes with extremely long lashes. He is tall and thin with knobby knees. He has very large tonsils.

    He loves to be naked, is naked as often as possible, and sleeps naked. He says he likes to sleep in a cold bed in a cold room. He has plenty of blankets on though. He sometimes grinds his teeth in his sleep, and drools on his pillow.

    He has a friendly,open personality. Smart with a good sense of humor. He enjoys making people laugh and cheering up little kids with funny dances and physical comedy. He is active, likes swimming, climbing trees, playing outside. He also likes building with blocks and legos and builds amazing intricate structures. He likes to play games on the computer. He also seems to spend a lot of time thinking about life and the world, and he shares those thoughts with me.

    His health has been quite good in the past few years. As a baby he got lots of colds, but doesnt really get them anymore. Is not prone to getting stomach flus or digestive upsets like my daughter is. He has had the chicken pox. Just this darn knee thing.

    This is running long, but if you need more information I would be pleased to provide it.
    Thank you,

    [This message has been edited by mer (edited 23 February 2001).]

  • #2
    the photo, in particular the eyelashes, and the teeth grinding at night, plus the large tonsils all point to a Tubercular constitution underneath. But that won't cover this new layer of which the main symptom of knee swelling.

    I need to know in order to find this uppermost picture, what happened just before or around the time when the knee swelling first occurred.
    Any other health problems for which, say antibiotics were used. Or any change in family circumstances or schoolfreinds or anything you can remember around that time?


    • #3
      ps some more questions. how is your son with milk, eggs? does he have white spots in his fingernails? how about VACCINATIONS? any of those prior to onset of the knee swelling?


      • #4
        I will try to fully describe what happened both times with his knee swelling. The first time was much less dramatic than the second. He woke in the morning and said his leg really hurt, his thigh. By mid-day the left knee was swollen and seemed full of fluid. He was mobile, just kind of limped and hopped around, but was playing, even playing outdoors with his friends. This lasted a few days and on the third day I took him to the dr. who ordered x-rays and blood tests and checked him out. He basically said he had no idea what it was. Called it spontaneous synovitis of the knee.

        I went to the health food store, got some arnica gel and put it on his knee, within an hour the swelling was gone.

        The only thing at the time that I could come up with was that he had started an Aikido class where he had to kneel and stand, kneel and stand an awful lot.

        The second time, six months later he woke screaming in pain, his knee swollen. I got the arnica gel right away and put that on, but no results, I gave him arnica internally also. He laid down on the floor not moving and would periodically scream from pain. The pain was in his thigh pretty much I think. Again the knee was very swollen, seemed full of fluid but it was not red at all and not hot. Both feet were ice cold.

        We took him to the emergency room where they did bloodwork and x-rays. They also gave him a shot of morphine! They said even though the bloodwork was negative, they thought he had JRA, they sent us home. We bandaged the knee, and treated it with cold, and more arnica gel. By morning the swelling was down. He was on crutches and wore a knee brace for a few days, but after the first day or so he didnt really need the crutches, in fact it was hard to keep him from running around.

        To answer your other questions, he doesnt have spots on his nails. He feels ambivalent about eggs and milk, no strong feelings about either one. He never asks for them, but will drink milk on occasion and has been known to eat an egg or two. He has had most of his vaccinations. As a baby he would usually react to them with crying and a fever. He has had antibiotics once. I believe when he was four years old.

        Another general thing about him that I wanted to write down, he sneezes when he goes out into the sun. Ever since he was born this has been true. And his sneeze is just like mine, multiple sneezes in a row.

        I keep thinking of more things to say about him, but I guess I can just wait and see if there are more questions.



        • #5
          Originally posted by Anna Bryant:
          the photo, in particular the eyelashes, and the teeth grinding at night, plus the large tonsils all point to a Tubercular constitution underneath. But that won't cover this new layer of which the main symptom of knee swelling.
          I beg to differ. From the Complete Repertory, I found:

          1EXTREMITIES; SWELLING; General; knee:
          1tub., 1thal., 1ter., 1tarent., 2sulph.,
          3sil., 2sep., 2sars., 2sal-ac., 1ruta,
          3rhus-t., 2rhod., 1pyrus, 3puls., 2phyt.,
          1phos., 1ol-j., 2nux-v., 1nit-ac., 2nat-m.,
          1mur-ac., 1morg., 1merc., 1mag-c., 3lyc.,
          3led., 2lach., 2lac-c., 1lac-ac., 1kreos.,
          1kali-sil., 1kali-s., 2kali-i., 2kali-c.,
          1kali-ar., 2iod., 1hip-ac., 3hep., 2fl-ac.,
          1ferr-ar., 1ferr., 1elat., 2cop., 1con.,
          2colch., 2cocc., 1coc-c., 2clem., 2cic.,
          2chin., 1cedr., 1caust., 2calc-sil.,
          1calc-s., 2calc-p., 1calc-i., 1calc-f.,
          3calc., 1bufo, 3bry., 3berb., 1benz-ac.,
          1bell., 2bar-m., 1bac., 1aur-m., 1arund.,
          1ars-s-f., 2ars-i., 2ars., 2arn., 2apis,
          2anthr., 1ant-t., 1ant-s., 1ant-c., 1ammc.,
          1agn., 2aesc., 1acon.

          2 EXTREMITIES; SWELLING; General; knee; left:
          1colch., 2cic., 1bac., 2aesc.

          3 EXTREMITIES; SWELLING; General; knee;
          right: 1ven-m., 1ter., 3sulph., 2elat.,
          1chin., 2benz-ac.

          Silica, Tuberculinum, Bacillinum, Nat Mur, The calcs (mixed with silica, phos, etc) the Kalis again with silica, phosphorus, etc) Rhus tox, Phosphorus, Ammonium Carb, the arsenicums, apis, sepia, the lac remedies...these just off the top of my head! All of these tubercular remedies, including tuberculinum, have swelling anywhere in the body, and in particular in the knee.

          That's quite an unsubstantiated bias--look how many good remedies would never be considered because of this kind of thinking!
          ...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine


          • #6
            Hello mer
            Gone through your son’s case report
            It seems to be a definite case of jra
            Please go forASO Titre which will confirm
            the diagnosis .the first aspect.
            Secondly on strong mental condition-
            The child wants to be nude ie.shamelessness=Phos
            Sneezing in sunshine= Merc Sulph,………….Phos
            Costitution indicative ……………………...Phos
            Third thing -not incurable but won’t be cure with
            A single you will have to furnish informations
            Stating condition and development
            Next quest.-how he feels –by touch ,pressure,movement,cold warmth
            And in my opinion Phosphorus 1m a singledose willhelp


            • #7
              hello mer
              the strong mental symptom -'the child wants to be nude ' is guiding -Phosphrus
              please give a dose of med. and watch the progress
              go for ASO Titre forJRA


              • #8
                I can see I am being watched eagle-eyed for my phrasing. I meant that although the boy's constitution is clearly tubercular, Tub itself is not of use here, not uppermost.

                pksinha, my repertory lacks Phos for sneezing in the sunshine - I have only agar, aur, hydr, merc, merc-sul, nat mur, sang
                Please could you give your source for including phos or is it personal experience which I would also be pleased to add to my rep. Thank you.

                I have had a mail from GM about this case and he asks me to ask if calomel was ever used on the boy's skin - perhaps during chicken pox? Also GM asks if if he has any allergies to foods containing phosphates - such as non-organic fruit sprayed with phosphates.

                I also want to know if he has any mercury/amalgam fillings, and if so, did they precede the onset of the first swelling?

                [This message has been edited by Anna Bryant (edited 19 February 2001).]


                • #9
                  Anna - GM has been banned from this BB - Do you not understand what that means. His participation is no longer welcome!!! Can't you just leave it that way? There has been ALOT of good advice given here on the HomeopathyHome BB of late and most everyone seems content to have it that way. I for one am!


                  • #10
                    He does have one filling, and I can't remember when he got it, I know it was before the first time his knee became swollen, perhaps about a year before.

                    A few months before his knee became swollen, he was bitten by a spider while asleep, and he turned read from his armpit to his hip, hot to the touch. This is what he was given antibiotics for. It suppressed it during the course of antibiotics, it returned right after the antibiotics were through. We went to a homeopathic MD who prescribed...more antibiotics.(which I didn't give) We went to someone else who prescribed belladonna 12x which cleared it up straight away.

                    About the fruit, I am not aware of any allergies, we try to buy all organic. When he was littler though, he would get a rash around his mouth from eating melon like cantaloupe.

                    About the titre, I am going to get a copy of his medical records and see if he has already had that test, also this will help me get the dates straight of both the knee swelling and the bug bite.

                    And with the chicken pox, we didn't use calomine, but we did use an oatmeal based cream and oatmeal baths, also an MD told us to give an antihistamine, which I may have given him once or twice.

                    I very much appreciate the attention from all the learned homeopaths here. GM too. I know that he has been banned, and I don't know why but I have seen him give good advice to others and I have no objections.


                    • #11
                      Apis mel 200. The knee problem is from the suppressed spider bite.

                      Mail me if you require explanation mer.

                      There is another remedy under Apis that will need to follow later, so keep in touch or keep posting.


                      • #12
                        ps use just two tablets under the tongue, once only, NOT daily. [ I don't know how much knowledge you have of homoeopathy].

                        Give the dose on a clean palate away from food and drink.


                        • #13
                          hello ann
                          please refer to Boennighausen's charactristics and repertory compiled by C.M.Boger pageno.1127
                          and I will again request please look for the mental which is guiding . nudeness is great symptom which can't be over looked



                          • #14
                            I wouldn't doubt if it was from the spider bite. But nudeness is definitely a characteristic of my little guy. He usually dresses only right before we have to go out, and he won't even wear any underwear!

                            From what I have read, phosphorous does seem to fit his personality. And with his big eyes and long lashes that reach his cheekbones when he closes his eyes.

                            I have a question, if it seems that phosphorous matches his mentals and could be his "constitutional" remedy, would it take care of the joint swelling no matter what had caused it? Or do you treat something like this in layers, first with Apis, and with Phos. to follow?


                            • #15
                              pksinha - thanks for your reference. I do not have the Boger version of Boenninghaussen's rep, but another version of it. Please could you give the section and subrubric you used in the Boenninghaussen Rep if you have the time to look it up?
                              I am no expert with the B. Rep although I would like to be. Thank you also for questionning the significance of nudeness in the case, which has made me think about the case more, and I think it has given me a key into the case that I lacked previously.

                              When I saw that photo I knew there was Tub strongly there, and now I think I see why. It is a Tarentula case [that also has the desire to be naked and the spider bite as causative of the leg swelling]. Then Tub would follow. I like the sound of that EXCEPT that it lacks sneezing in sunshine - at least according to my reps, so there would have to be another remedy involved.

                              Regarding layers, I would give Tarent first because if the "constitutional" is given without taking the "bite" layer there is more of likelihood of recurrence of the swelling. Does that sound reasonable to you PKsinha?

                              mer, the questions I would like to know are

                              Is he restless, with his limbs sprawled out about the place, and a bit of cunning about him too? Any tendency to be wiley - a foxy kind of nature?

                              [This message has been edited by Anna Bryant (edited 20 February 2001).]