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  • Need Explnation of what happened

    Chris did not want me posting on here any more for she thought it was not helpful. I am sorry but I just need an answer to what went wrong with the Ars remedy I took. She has now told me to see a doctor for the pain I am in sounds too painful to be a result of the remedy. I guess I don't understand homeopathy at all for I thought if I didn't have this pain before the dose of LM1 ARS and now I do what happened? I have sever head pain right sided mostly but sometime I feel it in front. I have heavyness over my right eye and I strain in my right eye. I am in bad shape and feel like I don't have answers to what happened. I'm soory Chris but you kinda left me whit no understanding of what is going on with me and I am scared. You didn't want me to post on here but now I am having trouble doing my job and just getting through the day and I don't know what happened. Someone e-mail me privately who I don't know and said that after 48 hours if the remedy was not working that I shoul have stopped it and I am wondering how I ended up this way. I know this probably ends are working relationship and I am going to see a homeopath but a week ago I just had the right sided ear pain and now I have pain in both ears and a sever migraine. I can understand that no one is perfect and things happen but I just need to understand what happended. I should have found someone here to see me in person and that could return my calls/e-mails right away and thatis my fault. YOu have been great and I think you are great but I am in such pain and have no understanding of what happend. Can someone please explaine and will this pain eventually go away. Is this a side effect to a wrong remedy or a right remedy but taken in too high a dose.

    I know Chris did not want me on here but can you blame me?? I am worse now than before and can't even do my job.

    Tonight I am seeing someone but ever hour that goes by I wonder what happend.

    Sorry Chris I understand why you didn't want me on here but I need some clairfacation for ME to understand.


  • #2
    I followed your posting and understand your frustration....this is my take on what happened.

    At some point you and Chris had a miscommuncation about your LM prescription...when to take it when to stop... it appeared by your posts that you were continueing the LM even while you drank the coffee... you then took Caffea in potency with some benefit, but because you later became uncomfortable you dosed yourself again with Caffea which in my opinion caused an aggravation of that then panicked, which I do understand , but now your case snowballs out of control and is lost in all the BB advice and your panic... I think Chris will agree that this scenerio is the reason long distance prescribing is so difficult... basically, you took your case out of Chris's hands when you chose to post here rather than wait....waiting is always the best choice unless ones life is in danger... your symptoms have now reached a proportion that concerns Chris because she has no way to 'see' the case as it has become and I think this is why she wants you to see a Dr....if it is a homeopath you will be seeing soon, your problems should resolve quickly with the correct remedy and this homeopath will be able to give you the clarification about what happened that you need...but to be fair to Chris, remember, you chose to take your case out of her hands...Ricky's suggestion that you take ibuprophen while waiting for Chris probably should have been the first and only suggestion made by members of this my opinion.... Denise


    • #3
      Thank you and I do understand. Chris did reply to me off here and said I could take one more dose of Caffea if I was still spinning and I still felt that. But thank you for your comment becuase maybe the second dose did do something. I am posting here now for I need some light shed on my case before I go tonight. Yor post helps me remember that I did take a second dose of caffea and I had forgot that. I have a lot of respect for Chris but I am just left trying to understand if the remedy is the cause of my sever head aches and new left sided ear pain and eye strain. I am not attacking or blaming anyone I just need to understand so I don't go there toninight and leave out something and I am nervous he will be confused. It's confusing now ... my case and I hope I can explaine what happened step by step. I am in sever pain and I never thought this could happen but it did so I am trying not to go crazy.



      • #4
        I only took one dose of ARs LM1. Only one dose and waited for her. I never took anything during this time back with her unless she said it was ok to do so not even the second dose of caffea. I always waited to hear back from her before doing anything but I did need reassurance that nothing was going drastically wrong when I started spinning. That was scary.


        • #5
          I only took one dose of ARs LM1. Only one dose and waited for her. I never took anything during this time back with her unless she said it was ok to do so not even the second dose of caffea. I always waited to hear back from her before doing anything but I did need reassurance that nothing was going drastically wrong when I started spinning. That was scary. And I thought that was what this sight was for if you were in a pinch.

          [ 24 July 2002, 20:46: Message edited by: Danielle ]


          • #6
            I know you are concerned about forgetting details of the last week or so, but..your reaction to this whole incident will likely go far to help the new homeopath find the correct remedy....just make a few notes about what you took when and the rest will speak for itself during the interview... just as an aside, I had an extreme reaction to an LM potency myself... you will get through it, best wishes... Denise


            • #7
              I guess this goes to show that even the LM's are powerful - this sort of reaction is comparable to a centesimal.

              Danielle, there are a number of possibilities for what happened.

              1. The remedy was close but not quite right. Close enough that you were sensitive to it but not close enough to cure. You may have developed what we call "proving" symptoms - symptoms associated with the remedy rather than the patient. You may be a hypersensitive/ ultrasensitive patient - have you taken homoeopathic remedies before?

              If they are proving symptoms, then this may still be a good sign, as the remedy can still act to cure. They should pass off with time and leave you feeling better. Otherwise, a new remedy must be prescribed to antidote the effect.

              2. The symptoms may be long-forgotten symptoms resurfacing as part of the aggravation/curative process. I know it seems strange to talk about symptoms you have forgotten, but I have had patients go through this, only to say later that they had these symptoms much earlier in their life. Sometimes they must confirm it with their family, who may remember what they have forgotten. This would then be an excellent sign.

              3. The remedy has activated a latent disease/state inside you, which calls for a new remedy. There is a theory of miasms in Homoeopathy, which is way too complicated to go into here, that suggests we carry a blueprint for various diseases within us and can be activated at any time. A remedy may push one of these "buttons" as part of the process of cure. I normally ask a patient if anyone in the family has this symptom (look to any generation or branch of the family).

              I am still formulating an understanding of this myself, but I have observed that some patients, after being given what appears to be the correct remedy, develop symptoms that a relative has also had. This then calls for a new remedy. I believe that disease not only has an element of the past in it, but also the future. Homoeopathy stimulates an old disease in order to cure the person of the possibility of ever getting it again. I believe that it may also activate a latent/future disease in order to allow us to prescribe a remedy for it immediately, instead of waiting for it to happen. I think this is a direct influence of the miasm we have inherited from our families. Bad blood if you will. I hope this also means we would not then pass it on to our children.
              David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.


              • #8
                David and Hans,
                I am so glad you both responded here... you gave the explanations I expected and needed clarification on.. I do have a question based not so much on what is homeopathic (I do recognize ibuprophen is not a homeopathic choice), but what is the lesser of evils when this kind of help is feeling at the time of my posting was that ibuprophen to palliate until Chris could respond was less of an imposition on the case than suggesting alternate remedies...
                Hans, my understanding when reading this situation was that Ars LM1 was the first prescription...Caffea was prescribed to antidote its agg/proving(?) effects which did give relief but a second dose of Caffea was taken which if I followed the sequence of symptoms correctly was not needed and then she became much worse...this is why I felt she was aggravating on the Caffea (and it read true in Materia Medica)...
                If the sequence I related is correct, is my understanding correct?
                Thankyou both......... Denise


                • #9
                  Dear denise
                  The reaction was unclear and still is. We don’t have the case-notes chris is holding. Therefore we cannot analyse what went wrong in terms of disease-symptoms.
                  We can however look out for independent improvement signs, which give us the indication, that there is curative action. These improvement-signs were missing all along, even when the coffea was applied. Until we have all the information, we cannot say with definiteness what was going on, only that the disease worsened.
                  This fact urges par.: 250.
                  Regards giving painkillers as the lesser of two evils---I can tell you a story which happened 3 days ago:
                  A former patient of mine, girl, age 11 who was treated by me for persistent headaches and the tendency to catch colds and who consulted another homeopath for the last year came down with a headache in the evening. This headache was accompanied by dizziness and a blurred vision. The mother thought this was a viral infection as it was accompanied by Nausea, possibly retching and gave a dose of a strong painkiller without further investigation and sent the child to bed. However as time went on the condition worsened, and the child was admitted to hospital eventually, to be pronounced dead on arrival. It was revealed, that the child must have suffered a stroke.
                  I don’t have the full story yet. But would not have advice to take painkillers myself.
                  Regards what to do as a bystander—
                  I contacted chris directly:

                  Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 8:58AM
                  Subject: Hi chris

                  Dear Chris
                  What’s going on with Danielle?
                  Do you need help?
                  Hans Weitbrecht
                  HOMEOPATH / IRELAND


                  • #10
                    Dear danielle
                    Initially, I decided not to get involved directly in this carry on, only for that there are people unnecessarily suffering out there, which heartens me deeply, I decided to write these lines.
                    For me it is impossible to know exactly what happened, as I don’t know on what indications the Ars was prescribed.

                    Generally spoken there are different possibilities:
                    1) the remedy had nothing to do with your disease and the disease is running its course very much unaltered—the coffea made no difference. In this case the appropriate measure would be : retake the case and prescribe anew. Not getting any relive after the remedy would suggest this scenario.

                    2) The remedy did aggravate what is known as a homeopathic aggravation. This small homeopathic aggravation only happens in the first few hours after taking the remedy and only in acute cases. In chronic cases this does not happen, using LM’s if selected properly. See Org.: Par.: 157-161

                    3) After the remedy was given, worsening occurred. In this incidence there should not be any time wasted to select and apply a better suitable remedy for the momentary condition, as the last remedy selection was faulty. The remedy selected on the symptoms now present will not only antidote the previously wrong selection but also work curatively. See Org.: Par.: 249-250. Here is par.: 50 as a reminder:

                    ‘’ When to the observant practitioner who accurately investigates the state of the disease, it is evident, in urgent cases after the lapse of only SIX, EIGHT or TWELVE hours that he has made a bad selection in the medicine last given, in that the patients state is growing perceptibly, however slightly, worse from hour to hour, by the occurrence of new symptoms and sufferings, it is not only allowable for him, but it is HIS DUTY TO REMEDY HIS MISTAKE, by the selection and administration of a homeopathic medicine not merely TOLERABLY suitable, but the most appropriate possible for the existing state of the disease. See par 167.’’

                    So—my advice would be, if you wish to be treated homoeopathically, to seek help in a competent homeopath. Taking painkillers would be unhomeopathic.
                    If you have more questions send me a mail.
                    My heart goes out to you, Hans

                    Ps for David:
                    I.S.Hom, Member No.:0006
                    Hans Weitbrecht
                    HOMEOPATH / IRELAND


                    • #11
                      Point well taken...THANKYOU Hans


                      • #12
                        Thanks for that Hans. I include my membership number there so that non-practitioners on the site can see I am a qualified and professional homoeopath, not so much for the other practitioners.

                        But I agree with all Hans has said, regarding the need to do something if a patient has had an inappropriate reaction to a remedy.
                        David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.


                        • #13

                          To help bring some clarity to this situation I'd like to provide the following information.

                          Firstly, what needs to be stated at the outset is that I misunderstood at various stages the direction the case was taking. Danielle has been suffering with migraine-type symptoms for several days now and I have obviously misread the cues from 2 phone calls and private email, the intensity of which and the signs of improvement/no improvement appearing at odds to me with the subsequent desperate postings on the BB.

                          I felt cautious in repeating the LM remedy because Danielle's reaction from it reminded me of the one she reported after having had acupuncture treatment 3 months previously. Danielle had expected to feel a sense of relaxation, tranquility and peace from the acupuncture, instead she described the sensation as overwhelmingly destabilizing, that she had been left feeling outside of herself, out of sorts. 2 further acupuncture treatments improved this situation. As well, her acupuncturist had suggested she may have IBS and Danielle stated to me that she began to really obsess with all of these symptoms. Somewhere around this time Danielle also had some disturbing news about her mother's chronic condition and the symptoms of ear pain began. Danielle stated to me that she connects having an earache to childhood experiences of earache that in turn triggers fear of death, fear of having an incurable disease, fear of poverty, fear of being homeless, fear of being abandoned, despair of recovery, fear of being punished by God, and fear of being alone. There is a great degree of restlessness and anxiety and anguish in the process when these fears are triggered and accelerated. Danielle had a physical examination from which there was initially noted some fluid in the ear canal and Sudafed was prescribed which dried up the fluid. There were no signs of inflammation, Eustacian tube blockage, no redness, no loss of balance, no loss of visual acuity suggesting anything more sinister. The neurologist was at a loss to explain the symptoms and suggested more tests. Danielle took a homoeopathic complex, Belladonna, Kali mur, something else, and Sulphur, and later Pulsatilla which she said helped to reduce her anxiety enough to get outside her apartment.

                          At this time I stepped in and offered assistance. The symptoms of ear pain were described as piercing and burning, as if they were on fire, everything burned, ears, eyes, urine. As stated previously this was accompanied by great restlessness and anxiety, and a great desire not to be on her own. I prescribed Arsenicum LM 1 but there was a mix up on her order and it was delayed, or she cancelled. After a couple of days she said she had Ars 30C at home and I said take one dose. From my understanding the intensity of the burning pains subsided but not completely. Danielle had in the meantime purchased Ars alb LM 1 from a different pharmacy and I asked her to take one dose although I was unhappy that this pharmacy prepared LM pillules on large pellets, not poppy seed size pellets as recommended. This dose produced the sensation of energy coursing through her head, an intensely uncomfortable sensation which was unbearable to her. Not wishing to prolong this state of distress I prescribed Coffea 30C based on the symptoms of oversensitiveness to noise and light, and that her pains were truly driving her to despair. At different stages of emailing I was under the impression that the intensity of oversensitization was improving, but it had not, that the ear pain was now tolerable, but it was not. Danielle believes that all subsequent symptoms have been caused by the LM 1 dose of Arsenicum. Various advisors on the BB and anonymously have agreed or disagreed, and offered more prescriptions. This is a situation I tried to avoid knowing that Danielle was in a vulnerable position and more confusing advice simply added more confusion. Because of her previous suggestibility I asked her to agree to stay off the BB. She feared that her situation was identical to those of some other posters on other threads. And, we've all heard from her friend Ryan. The headache symptoms have since become more predominant. The last remedy I prescribed was Pulsatilla 30C which had no effect on the level and length of pain which has persisted throughout. On Hans's suggestion the next remedy offered was Lachesis, LM 1 one dose from the second glass. There has been no more contact from Danielle to me since this time.

                          As a final note, I'm glad I was able to be of assistance to Danielle almost a year ago with a previous chronic complaint which resolved quickly with an LM 1 potency. I have many times since then encouraged her to seek out a local homoeopath who can see her in person. I regret I was not of assistance in this situation and hope posting this information will assist others in whatever way it can.



                          • #14
                            Thanks for all your posts!!!!

                            I went to the homeopath/MD last night. He took blood, urine, etc and I go for an MRI Next week. I personally think all my symptoms started after acpuncture for I was so out of sorts after the first time. My boss remembers me comming in the next day a mess. I remember mucus running down the back of my throat like as if I was swimming in mucus. Well I went three times and then a week after I got an ear ache which then turned into fire burning out of my ears. Two weeks later my eyes, throat, tongue seemed like it was all on fire and I had not taken anything... I was in fear and started having panic attacks where I could not leave my house. That is when I posted on the BB and Chris came to my rescue. I can't say enpough about here for she really has helped me in more than one way and talking with her on the phone set me straight but after I got this head pain and feeling of something in my right eye and migraine ruunning down right side and neck I just lost faith in her words. It's not her fault but when the remedy was making me feel horrible I wondered is this doing anything. It moved the ear pain around from ear to ear, my ears were popping and i started to feel like a rubberband being pulled in all directions, like I was in a fun house at an amusement park looking in one of those mirris that distorts you. The ear pain got worse and I cried every hour of every day and still do. For now it's effecting my job and I can't think and I feel not on top of my game. I don't know how I got the fire burning ear pain to begin with and all the burning symptoms but acpuncture seems to how... but I am not sure. Unless I have something but the Cat scan would have picked that up.

                            Thank you Chris for posting my case. I am seeing this MD now to rule out anything and he also is a homeopath but I would not go to him for that. He is no homeopath and told me homeopathy is very safe and a remedy could not give me any symptoms that I am having now. He did not listen to the whole story from day one and really only cared about ruling out the worst first. He told me get to the point what are your symptoms now!

                            I do need to find a good homeopath here than can help me. Snoopy recommended someone to me and I will look into it butI am getting the MRI to rule out the worst. I am in pain now and Chris e-mailed me a remedy to take but again LM's are hard to get and ....

                            Sorry about my friend who posted on here (Ryan) that was totally embarassing for me and I am not him. I respect everyone on here fully and I could not believe he wrote what he did.. Well I am not him and I hope people on here know that.

                            Anyway I still have right sided ear pain, kinda burning, aching left side feels funny at times but not so much pain just on occasion I notic something going on with my left ear. I feel like there is something in my right eye or over my right eye ball but there is nothing is in my eye. I have a frountal headache right now more right sided and my eyes feel a little on the burning side... like an allergy state but not on fire or bad burning but I feel something. I am on no pain killers today and the migraine feel less this morning but who know as the day goes on.

                            Anyway thank you all for taking your time to post on here. I am at a low point now and thank you Chris for not being mad that I posted I just needed help to understand what was going on. I got your e-mail about what to take I don't have an LM but could get one from the company with tiny pellets. I must admit I am scared to take another remedy but I do want this new added pain to go away.

                            This MD/ Homeopath can at least rule out the worst but then I need to find a really good homeopath in NYC to help me I think.


                            [ 25 July 2002, 15:58: Message edited by: Danielle ]


                            • #15
                              If you need an LM potency quickly, you might want to call 1-800-arnica30, or check their web site at

                              I think calling would be easier than filling out the order form on the net and you will know immediately if they have it or not.

                              I have a number of LM's on hand and live about 2 hours from NYC. So, if you are in need of a remedy TODAY and if someone would like to pick it up (and I have it) I would be very glad to provide it. If the remedy you need is Lach, I do have that in LM1, LM6, LM30 and also in all potencies such as 200, 1M, 10M. If it is a different remedy, email me and I will let you know if I have it.

                              If you oder from Homeopathyovernite by 4 PM today (I think it's 4) you will have it by tomorrow.
                              Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.