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  • Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

    respected Dr. J. Rozencwajg,

    regards and greetings.

    many thanks for your great replies. I will be really grateful if you can find some time to clarify some areas. may be it will help others on the www also.

    as I had said earlier, my mother is suffering from cardiac ischemia and is on homeo simillimum. I am trying to balance her diet. she is STRICT lacto-vegetarian. (no eggs, no fish, no meat).

    after considering the naturopathic viewpoints I have decided to STOP iodized commercial table salt from her diet and replace it with natural rock salt (and also limit salt intake as much as possible). I have noted your suggestions re: use to sea kelp as iodine source.

    1) should I go for KELP or SPIRULINA as iodine source? does commercially grown (NON-oceanic) spirulina have reliable amount of iodine?

    2) kindly recommend the BEST all-natural brand of kelp/spirulina for iodine supplement.

    3) kindly suggest the MINIMUM DOSE both for kelp/spirulina that should be taken by her per day/per week (ONLY for iodine source) alongwith a balanced diet plan.

    4) is there ANY natural iodine added rock salt brand available? [the best rock salt brands are all 'himalayan' and sourced from the pakistan salt range. there is not enough iodine in there - naturally- unless added later on.]

    5) this is what troubles me....my mother's TSH level is high and in the past she has shown dangerously VERY HIGH sensitivity of iodine (as ointment or during IV radio imaging contrast). I am clueless what to do with this iodine thing. my mother will not take fish or seaweed (for iodine). the family allopath almost considers naturopaths/homeopaths views as crazy and so he will not have anything to say against iodized commercial table salt. I wish to stop iodized commercial table salt as I feel this chemical iodine may be aggravating her condition (what do YOU think?) + the commercial refined salt is NOT ok. I would like to go for natural unprocessed rock salt (in very limited quantities). but, then will it be safe to go for iodine supplements for her tricky situation (high TSH. very high sensitivity to iodine)? as you know, natural rock salts do not have enough iodine.
    please do advise what to do. I will be really thankful.

    many thanks for your kind help.

    dr manish agarwala
    india

    PS: other colleagues may also feel free to comment. many thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

    I have been away for a few days, so see your email only now.



    She has a heart condition, why would she still add salt, any type of salt to
    her diet.....does not make sense.



    Kelp or spirulina or other seaweeds are foods, not drugs or remedies, so you
    eat it according to taste, the body will take what it needs, if it is
    functioning properly. I cannot recommend brands as I do leave that to the
    patient's choice when he/she goes to the health food shop (cost is involved)
    with the only proviso that it must be organic and preferably from a local
    source; this is valid for any country.



    And here comes the million dollars question: why is she sensitive to iodine?
    A high TSH sows a malfunction of her thyroid, what happened to it? Those are
    the areas you have to investigate in order to fine tune your treatment.



    I am sorry I cannot be more precise, but I feel that is the best I can do
    from far away.



    Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

    "The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

    Visit www.drjoesnaturalmedicine.blogspot.com for articles and information.

    -------Original Message-------



    From: homeolist (AT) otherhealth (DOT) com

    Date: 22/03/2009 2:54:48 p.m.

    To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com

    Subject: [H] Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE



    Respected Dr. J. Rozencwajg,



    Regards and greetings.



    Many thanks for your great replies. I will be really grateful if you

    Can find some time to clarify some areas. May be it will help others on

    The www also.



    As I had said earlier, my mother is suffering from cardiac ischemia and

    Is on homeo simillimum. I am trying to balance her diet. She is STRICT

    Lacto-vegetarian. (no eggs, no fish, no meat).



    After considering the naturopathic viewpoints I have decided to STOP

    Iodized commercial table salt from her diet and replace it with natural

    Rock salt (and also limit salt intake as much as possible). I have noted

    Your suggestions re: use to sea kelp as iodine source.



    1) should I go for KELP or SPIRULINA as iodine source? Does

    Commercially grown (NON-oceanic) spirulina have reliable amount of

    Iodine?



    2) kindly recommend the BEST all-natural brand of kelp/spirulina for

    Iodine supplement.



    3) kindly suggest the MINIMUM DOSE both for kelp/spirulina that should

    Be taken by her per day/per week (ONLY for iodine source) alongwith a

    Balanced diet plan.



    4) is there ANY natural iodine added rock salt brand available? [the

    Best rock salt brands are all 'Himalayan and sourced from the Pakistan

    Salt range. There is not enough iodine in there - naturally- unless

    Added later on.]



    5) this is what troubles me....my mother's TSH level is high and in the

    Past she has shown dangerously VERY HIGH sensitivity of iodine (as

    Ointment or during IV radio imaging contrast). I am clueless what to do

    With this iodine thing. My mother will not take fish or seaweed (for

    Iodine). The family allopath almost considers naturopaths/homeopaths

    Views as crazy and so he will not have anything to say against iodized

    Commercial table salt. I wish to stop iodized commercial table salt as I

    Feel this chemical iodine may be aggravating her condition (what do YOU

    Think?) + the commercial refined salt is NOT ok. I would like to go for

    Natural unprocessed rock salt (in very limited quantities). But, then

    Will it be safe to go for iodine supplements for her tricky situation

    (high TSH. Very high sensitivity to iodine)? As you know, natural rock

    Salts do not have enough iodine.

    Please do advise what to do. I will be really thankful.



    Many thanks for your kind help.



    Dr manish agarwala

    India



    PS: other colleagues may also feel free to comment. Many thanks!





    --

    Dr manish agarwala

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dr manish agarwala's Profile: http://www.otherhealth.com/member
    php?userid=7294

    View this thread: http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?t=10369



    Comment


    • #3
      Dear Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD,
      Regards and many thanks for your wise reply.
      dr manish agarwala

      Comment


      • #4
        Dear dr manish agarwal,
        Your mother has a high level of TSH, what can be a consequence of an initial hypothyroidism. If my suspicion is right, so it is very difficult to improve the heart condition before than you restore the thyroid gland function. Now, it is very important to check T4free, T3free and antibodies to thyroid gland.

        d-r endocrinologist, homeopath

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

          On Mar 20, 2009, at 12:56 PM, homeolist (AT) otherhealth (DOT) com wrote:

          << I have decided to STOP
          > iodized commercial table salt from her diet and replace it with
          > natural
          > rock salt>>



          If I my interject something here:

          Why would you add salt to her food at all?
          I would see it as toxic to her condition and if so, why add toxins to
          food?
          [It is many years since I had a salt pot in my house. And nobody for
          whom I cooked, ever knew there was no salt in it, till after they
          asked for the recipe.]

          Salt does NOT help the taste compared with really good flavours -
          (IMO salt is for people with no imagination!) and it certainly does
          nothing good for a heart condition.
          There are dozens of excellent high-antioxidant spices and herbs with
          which food can be flavored, all vegetarian, most or all of which
          would actually be beneficial instead of detrimental.

          You could check Dr Rozencwajg's book (available at lulu.com) on
          detoxification and organotherapy, in which among other ideas, there
          are lists of what plant foods are good in which way for health. I use
          this myself to fine-tune diet to benefit chronic illness.
          Many culinary herbs and spices have excellent properties apart from
          the benefit from high antioxidant levels in them. People are
          individual an d so some experimentation with these to find what
          tastes the person likes best, can be fun and helpful.


          > 5) this is what troubles me....my mother's TSH level is high and in
          > the
          > past she has shown dangerously VERY HIGH sensitivity of iodine (as
          > ointment or during IV radio imaging contrast).


          I also am "sensitive to iodine" - but there is a big difference
          between potassium iodide preparations as used by allopaths and as
          found in some supplements, and natural iodine from food. Natural
          iodine in food is a component essential for life. One can not be
          allergic to a basic element needed to sustain life.
          My personal iodine supplement favorite is Nori, a seaweed that has 1
          mg sodium per sheet of Nori (and DO be sure none was added. Lately
          it is being made with salt added, yuk!) . Nori is the seaweed used in
          sushi rolls, it consists of several Japanese seaweeds. (Finding an
          organic source is not easy however.)

          Brands one can not suggest - it is different in different cities/
          countries/etc.
          Just read the ingredients labels to know what is in it.

          > I am clueless what to do
          > with this iodine thing. my mother will not take fish or seaweed


          Seaweed is 100% plant material. Nori is food made from the tiny
          microscopic seaweed, not very different from spirulina except
          spirulina is non-sea water-plant and Nori grows in/on the sea - both
          are microscopipc water plants.
          Not knowing why your mother is anti-seaweed, perhaps she can
          reconsider this plant food for health reasons?
          Other vegetarian food sources are not reliable supplies of iodine,
          either because the food tends to have way too little or because the
          soil on which it is grown is depleted - usually both.

          Some foods prevent proper use or absorption of iodine so you may want
          to avoid those. These include: Cruciferous vegetables (for example,
          cabbage and broccoli), soybean products, cassava root, peanuts,
          mustard, and millet.

          Another item might be relevant: The conversion of inactive thyroid
          hormone thyroxine (T4) to active thyroid hormone tri-iodo-thyronine
          (T3), requires the removal of an iodine molecule from T4. This
          reaction requires the mineral selenium, so it will not occur if
          selenium is deficient.

          Typical minimum daily requirement of iodine for comparison for some
          of the HIGHEST iodine source foods (using 150 micrograms as minimum -
          though up to 1100mcg is more usual intake):
          2 teaspoons Kelp per day (or other seaweed)
          4 eggs per day
          11.5 cups of strawberries per day
          15 cups of mozarella cheese per day

          My point in listing these (and strawberry is the BEST fruit/veg
          source outside of seaweed) is to explain that kelp or other seaweed
          is really the only safe plant source that comes even close to daily
          requirement from a natural source.

          Namaste,
          Irene
          --
          Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
          P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
          www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
          "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

          Comment


          • #6
            dear irene

            namaste and many thanks for being so kind and helpful! thanks for your detailed reply!

            could you please suggest a model NO added table salt diet for ANY patient? (vegetarian. no eggs. no fish. but milk/plain unsalted cheese is OK). this diet chart may help many on www. is it possible to get a good sodium-potassium ratio is a strict vegetarian diet without added table salt? if so, should we go for: lots of fruits + lot of vegetables (spinach, cabbage, lettuce, coriander, lots of tomato and cucumber) + dry unsalted cereals + walnuts + almonds + green coconut water + cheese + some sweets? will this do?

            I am researching this NO added table salt diet at the moment. please reply. many thanks.

            dr manish agarwala

            Comment


            • #7
              Irene
              this may DEEPLY interest you. this is what I found.
              pistachios (yes roasted is OK) 2 table spoon per day, almonds (say 10 a day), green veggies in salad/juice daily - in a STRICT vegetarian diet (no fish. no seaweed. no meat) along with very little NON-iodized natural rock salt (OR NO added salt) should supply enough iodine for daily needs. also recommended is green coconut water. NO supermarket supplements for iodine required!
              = google coconut and iodine....
              = see iodine content in plants here (see pistachio at 51 ppm)
              High-Low Chemical query
              = pistachio research. see here:
              Pistachio Health - Nutrition and Research on Pistachio Nuts
              Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies
              take care
              manish

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

                Why wouldn't seaweed be acceptable on a vegetarian diet?


                On Mar 24, 2009, at 5:30 PM, homeolist (AT) otherhealth (DOT) com wrote:

                >
                > Irene
                > this may DEEPLY interest you. this is what I found.
                > pistachios (yes roasted is OK) 2 table spoon per day, almonds (say 10 a
                > day), green veggies in salad/juice daily - in a STRICT vegetarian diet
                > (no fish. no seaweed. no meat) along with very little NON-iodized
                > natural rock salt (OR NO added salt) should supply enough iodine for
                > daily needs. also recommended is green coconut water. NO supermarket
                > supplements for iodine required!
                > = google coconut and iodine....
                > = see iodine content in plants here (see pistachio at 51 ppm)
                > 'High-Low Chemical query' (http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/highchem.html)
                > = pistachio research. see here:
                > 'Pistachio Health - Nutrition and Research on Pistachio Nuts'
                > (http://www.pistachiohealth.com/)
                > 'Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies'
                > (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...42654/abstract)
                > take care
                > manish
                >
                >
                > --
                > dr manish agarwala
                > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                > -
                > dr manish agarwala's Profile:
                > http://www.otherhealth.com/member.php?userid=7294
                > View this thread: http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?t=10369
                >
                >

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

                  On Mar 24, 2009, at 3:30 PM, homeolist (AT) otherhealth (DOT) com wrote:

                  >
                  > Irene
                  > this may DEEPLY interest you.


                  Thank you but not really. Your reference lacks at last two decimal
                  places to be useful.....

                  > this is what I found.
                  > pistachios (yes roasted is OK) 2 table spoon per day, almonds (say
                  > 10 a
                  > day), green veggies in salad/juice daily


                  Your quantities are completely incorrect, see below:

                  > - in a STRICT vegetarian diet
                  > (no fish. no seaweed. no meat) along with very little NON-iodized
                  > natural rock salt (OR NO added salt) should supply enough iodine for
                  > daily needs.


                  In other words - How much do you have to eat of each to get the
                  minimum of 150 micrograms (mcg)?
                  (mcg not ppm)

                  > also recommended is green coconut water. NO supermarket
                  > supplements for iodine required!
                  > = google coconut and iodine....
                  > = see iodine content in plants here (see pistachio at 51 ppm)


                  Pistachio is next on your ref list for iodine, after kelp, BUT:
                  ppm stands for parts per million (trace amounts) not micrograms as is
                  the standard unit for measuring iodine in food.
                  So you would need a hundred times as many shelled crushed pistachio
                  nut spoonfuls as kelp to get the same iodine.

                  If you are looking at ppm instead of mcg, then you need food items at
                  least in t he thousands to be of any help towards meeting daily
                  minimums of 150 mcg.
                  Kelp is 5400 ppm for example.
                  Green veg which you mention is only about 5ppm.

                  The other way foods are listed for Iodine is in micrograms per 100g
                  of food.
                  On that scale we can again use Kelp as the "standard" and it is
                  1500mcg per 100mg of food.
                  In comparison (all in mcg per 100g food):
                  Swiss chard 9, turnip greens 7, spinach 3.6, kale 2.6. None of this
                  is "worth beans" comared to kelp's 1500.

                  I again would recommend Nori or Kelp.
                  And NO added salt (of any kind).

                  Namaste,
                  Irene
                  --
                  Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
                  P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
                  www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
                  "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

                    On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:23 PM, homeolist (AT) otherhealth (DOT) com wrote:
                    > could you please suggest a model NO added table salt diet for ANY
                    > patient?


                    ALL fresh food, not pre-prepared when bought. Cook with no more than
                    a couple teaspoons of water to steam them.
                    That way they retain all the nice taste and you need no more. Mix
                    them up well for flavor - such as mushroom, spinach, tomato, black
                    beans, and spaghetti squash for example.
                    As for the salt - find the trash can and put it in there.
                    Then go to the grocery store and get all the herbs and spices you like.
                    Add several of them (I like to include various flavorful peppers) to
                    extra virgin olive oil and shake and use as seasoning.
                    Add more spices/herbs separately as well, for variety.

                    Same idea with salads. Have lots of variety of leaves and veg, some
                    fruit, and add lots of nuts.
                    Just mix up everything you like.

                    Namaste,
                    Irene
                    --
                    Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
                    P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
                    www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
                    "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      dear irene

                      many thanks for your detailed reply.

                      1. you are right. I think I will have to accept sea kelp as the best option.

                      2. I found sea kelp (fucus vesiculosis) is also available as a homeopathic mother tincture. this may be a very pure option to use sea kelp. do you (or anyone else) have any idea about the iodine concentration per drop of the homeopathic tincture? any idea about the MINUMUM number of drops that need to be taken to get the RDA of 150mcg/day?

                      3. I think this 150mcg/day figure is on the higher side. the body tends to conserve iodine when the intake is lower and so at lower levels of intake also iodine deficiency may not happen if the thyroid is functioning normally.
                      but, yes - it may be better to keep 150mcg/day figure in mind. so, sea kelp supplementation may be a better idea.

                      namaste
                      manish

                      dear shannon
                      seaweed is OK to a strict vegetarian. it is just that here in india seaweed consumption is not at all common as a food item, particularly amongst vegetarians. I guess, I may have to go for sea kelp tincture or something.
                      thanks.
                      manish

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

                        Hi Manish,

                        I regret I do not know the iodine content of tincture. I would stick
                        to natural seaweed. It is easy to order it and get it by mail in
                        dried form.

                        As to daily requirements, 150 mch is considered minimum, and the
                        range of "normal consumption" is listed as 150mcg to 1100 mcg.
                        I'd tend to go to the higher figure myself, but certainly not less
                        than the 150mcg.


                        Fluoride may also be relevant (to avoid by having more Iodine.)
                        Fluoride is very toxic and is absorbed by the body if there is not
                        enough iodine around.
                        It is iodine (not fluoride) that is the natural way to make teeth
                        strong, and to support the thyroid etc - so any fluoride needs to be
                        guarded against by having MORE Iodine. With enough Iodine present,
                        the body will use the Iodine and leave the fluoride alone (which we
                        want).

                        I do not know if fluoride is relevant to your situation: In USa a lot
                        of water haas fluoride added, and also tea has a high fluoride
                        content. So water supply and tea are the main sources of excess
                        fluoride that I can think of.

                        Namaste,
                        Irene
                        --
                        Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
                        P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
                        www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
                        "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          dear irene

                          many thanks for your reply.

                          1. yes, thanks for pointing this out. I had kept fluoride in my mind. in the last many months - my mother has managed to cut down her tea intake. btw high quality green tea also has fluoride but lesser than black tea or cheaper teas (made of older teas). you may already be knowing this.

                          2. may I request you to please calculate the MINIMUM number of tomatoes that need to be juiced (not pureed) to get the minimum sodium requirement of the day in one serving. [as per High-Low Chemical query tomato sodium content is 6600ppm] moreover, I am not sure about the exact sodium requirement per day. I have read figure ranging from 500 mg to 1500 mg. can your help here, please?

                          dr manish agarwala

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Dr. J. Rozencwajg / IODINE

                            On Mar 28, 2009, at 11:03 AM, homeolist (AT) otherhealth (DOT) com wrote:

                            >
                            > dear irene
                            >
                            > many thanks for your reply.
                            >
                            > 1. yes, thanks for pointing this out. I had kept fluoride in my mind.
                            > in the last many months - my mother has managed to cut down her tea
                            > intake. btw high quality green tea also has fluoride but lesser than
                            > black tea or cheaper teas (made of older teas). you may already be
                            > knowing this.


                            My concern was more that you suggest enough iodine than that you
                            reduce green tea which is beneficial.

                            > 2. may I request you to please calculate the MINIMUM number of
                            > tomatoes
                            > that need to be juiced (not pureed) to get the minimum sodium
                            > requirement of the day in one serving.


                            Why would you want the sodium to be from one food only?
                            So I could tell you how much sodium is in a tomato - but I think you
                            need to look at the diet as a whole....

                            I would suggest that you take a day of food intake that is typical
                            and figure the nutrients in it from the database here:
                            http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

                            For example you can enter tomato in the search box,
                            click submit, then scroll down and select tomato juice canned
                            without salt
                            click submit, then select one cup as the quantity
                            click submit and you will get a long list of the nutrients in a cup
                            of tomato juice.
                            A cup has 24 mg of sodium.
                            But you will find 51mg in one large stalk of celery.

                            I would also think it may help to find a clinical nutritionist who
                            can see the blood test results for things like potassium, sodium etc,
                            and help you with devising a good diet.

                            Your own food analysis at the food database, can give you a general
                            idea what nutrients are low or high if you work at looking at ALL the
                            ones needed by the body in the vegetarian approach chosen. It is
                            quite a lot of work to analyse a day's food so thoroughly but it will
                            be able to point you in the direction of obvious shortages so that
                            you can research how to fulfil them.
                            Here is a place where you can link to lists of minimum required
                            nutrients:
                            http://1stholistic.com/nutrition/hol_nutrition-RDA.htm

                            I hope this helps.
                            Namaste,
                            Irene

                            PS I try to keep my own sodium down to 600mg a day and do well on
                            this POVIDED I am not producing a lot of perspiration due to heat or
                            activity. Sodium is also needed under stress. So there is not a
                            single figure of minimum that would suit everyone. More relevant is
                            to have enough potassium - though with vegetarian diet that should be
                            no problem. I need to add - I am NOT an expert in vegetarian ways of
                            getting what's needed by the body. If anything I am of the opinion
                            that it can not be done in a way to sustain health! I hope the
                            references help you in this quest.
                            --
                            Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
                            P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
                            www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
                            "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Becarefull of the uric acid in tomatoes,Many patients with RA symptoms and Gout must not have Tomatoes.
                              The Alkaline/Acid state should be monotored with a PH strip done daily.
                              Spirulina is great for minerals/iron/amino acids
                              Chlorella is Better than Spirulina more potent

                              Irene posted:"As for the salt - find the trash can and put it in there..........................................."
                              I agree 100% with Irene.
                              The only thing I use salt for in my house is To scrub dirt and grime off surfaces,certainly NOT for eating!
                              Salt/sugar- No one needs unless you are having heatstroke-(electrolytes)
                              "Spices" are better on your food-avoid salt/sugar-

                              and
                              more on toxic fluoride;
                              www.fluoridealert.org
                              fluoride-research
                              www.fluoridation.com
                              deception,suppression of info,toxicity,health effects!
                              "Great ideas often recieve violent opposition from mediocre minds"...................Einstein

                              Comment

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