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  • Combos vs. Singles

    Fran does a good job explaining this clearly on her website, http://homeopathyplus.com.au/complex...w-to-use-them/

    Combos can be a good way to introduce new consumers to homeopathy who may otherwise become discouraged if a single remedy is not the right simillimum for them.

    I know when I had a UTI and looked at the repertory, there are so many remedies listed for those rubrics, that I found it difficult to choose the right one.
    I ended up using a strong antibiotic Cipro, for a few weeks. The pain and discomfort was just too great to keep on searching.

    I've seen combos which blend the same potency of various remedies, say all 30X and also combos of various potencies of the same remedy with X's and C's. I remember reading Hahnemann doing some experiment with combos and discarding the idaea, not sure if any were done with same remedy at various potencies simultaneously.

    Susan


    Sue Startup wrote:

    Then why do you sell combination remedies on you Website?


    On 19/12/2011, at 5:57 PM, Fran Sheffield wrote:

    >
    > Tracking different types of homeopathy?????????????????
    >
    > I haven't been following this discussion closely but those who will pull
    > people into line in the future about what is homeopathy and what isn't
    > are the consumers.
    >
    > The current product confusion between standard homeopathic remedies and
    > complexes of all sorts has been created by manufacturers. It is not
    > something that is accepted, encouraged, or supported by the educated
    > consumer.
    >
    > Once consumers know the difference between a homeopathic remedy and a
    > combination remedy they become quite strident about wrong labelling. All
    > it takes is a little education.
    >
    > Those who want to have 'different types' of homeopathy will be
    > eventually be pulled into line by these consumers who, once they know
    > the difference between a standard remedy and an anything goes complex,
    > and once they start advocating for homeopathy, they are like reformed
    > smokers - there are no shades of gray. They and the skeptics will sort
    > the situation out.
    >
    > Kind Regards,
    >
    > Fran Sheffield



  • #2
    Re: Combos vs. Singles

    On Dec 19, 2011, at 12:20 AM, healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

    > Combos can be a good way to introduce new consumers to homeopathy


    A combo is not homeopathy; it fails Hahnemasnn's definition of the word adn also the Law of Similars.
    ONLY a similar remedy will help - so no point using anything else "to introduce someone to homeopathy".

    An introduction to mixology will only disappoint and cauase trauma from its later misuse.
    .......Irene
    --
    Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
    P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
    www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
    "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."






    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Combos vs. Singles

      It is certainly an area we need more research in. For starters:

      1. Do complexes cancel out some of the pathogenetic symptoms of some of
      the remedies in the mix (I think they do).
      2. Does the same thing happen with chords of potencies in a complex.
      3. How many remedies and how many potencies are too much (I am shocked
      at the number going into some complexes).

      And I for one would be very concerned if complexes were promoted as:

      1. Superior to the single remedy
      2. Good for chronic disease management

      because they are not.

      Their main usefulness in providing someone with a safe option for
      palliation of acute symptoms when for whatever reason they can't use the
      appropriate single remedy - but even then, there is no guarantee of
      palliation, just a reasoned likelihood. And of course, it there is no
      improvement by 3 - 4 doses they should be stopped as they are not going
      to help.

      As for Hahnemann, I think he was interested to see what two remedies
      together did (who wouldn't be) and at the suggestion of a friend and
      colleague, tried it. Knowing what combinations do, I think he found they
      were useful on some occasions but rejected them and did not recommend
      them for the above reasons - they are guess work and a fingers-crossed
      approach rather than providing surety of treatment. But hey, how do I
      really know? I can only judge by the same historical records every else
      has access to.

      But having said that, homeopathy is now in a different position to where
      it was in Hahnemann's day.

      It is no longer in its infancy where it's core principles are being
      discovered and established and it is no longer just in the hands of
      medical homeopaths who have to be kept on the straight and narrow and
      trained in the best way to practice it. Everyone now has access to it -
      practioners, consumers, home users and manufacturers. This was not the
      situation in Hahnemanns day.

      The homeopathic landscape has changed significantly so that homeopathy
      is no longer the domain of the medical prescriber. Anybody and everybody
      are doing anything and everything with potentised remedies. We have to
      move away from feeling funny about complexes because whether we like it
      or not, they are here to stay.

      I used to think they were the devil's work but now accept them, take
      advantage of the openings they create, and try to educate people about
      their sensible role and appropriate use. In this way excesses and
      misinformation can be controlled and people introduced to real
      homeopathy by comparison and contrast. If we don't do that they confuse
      everything as homeopathy.

      But .... we are now moving into an even more contious area - that of
      potentised allopathica. As the use if this type of remedy increases
      there will be an even greater need for us to understand what homeopathy
      is and what it isn't. My opinion is that consumer awareness (and the
      skeptics) will drive this.

      Kind Regards,

      Fran Sheffield


      On 19/12/2011 7:20 PM, healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:
      > Fran does a good job explaining this clearly on her website, http://homeopathyplus.com.au/complex...w-to-use-them/
      >
      > Combos can be a good way to introduce new consumers to homeopathy who may otherwise become discouraged if a single remedy is not the right simillimum for them.
      >
      > I know when I had a UTI and looked at the repertory, there are so many remedies listed for those rubrics, that I found it difficult to choose the right one.
      > I ended up using a strong antibiotic Cipro, for a few weeks. The pain and discomfort was just too great to keep on searching.
      >
      > I've seen combos which blend the same potency of various remedies, say all 30X and also combos of various potencies of the same remedy with X's and C's. I remember reading Hahnemann doing some experiment with combos and discarding the idaea, not sure if any were done with same remedy at various potencies simultaneously.
      >
      > Susan
      >
      >
      > Sue Startup wrote:
      >
      > Then why do you sell combination remedies on you Website?
      >
      >
      > On 19/12/2011, at 5:57 PM, Fran Sheffield wrote:
      >
      >> Tracking different types of homeopathy?????????????????
      >>
      >> I haven't been following this discussion closely but those who will pull
      >> people into line in the future about what is homeopathy and what isn't
      >> are the consumers.
      >>
      >> The current product confusion between standard homeopathic remedies and
      >> complexes of all sorts has been created by manufacturers. It is not
      >> something that is accepted, encouraged, or supported by the educated
      >> consumer.
      >>
      >> Once consumers know the difference between a homeopathic remedy and a
      >> combination remedy they become quite strident about wrong labelling. All
      >> it takes is a little education.
      >>
      >> Those who want to have 'different types' of homeopathy will be
      >> eventually be pulled into line by these consumers who, once they know
      >> the difference between a standard remedy and an anything goes complex,
      >> and once they start advocating for homeopathy, they are like reformed
      >> smokers - there are no shades of gray. They and the skeptics will sort
      >> the situation out.
      >>
      >> Kind Regards,
      >>
      >> Fran Sheffield

      >

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Combos vs. Singles

        It's worth noting that some of what we call combination remedies are
        truly not-homeopathy, and their makers are not calling them
        homeopathic, although they do use (combinations of) various substances
        *in potency*. I am thinking of e.g. Apex Energetics, and can't
        remember the other names. I'm remembering Apex remedies containing a
        large mix of names we have as homeopathic remedies (maybe sepia, puls,
        or etc.) and also nosodes and/or sarcodes, maybe e.g. histaminum,
        liver, and a wide range of possibilities.

        Those I would say act more along the lines of herbal remedies. They
        can be very useful. I don't know whether they may eventually confuse
        the case, but in the short run they do not appear to. But in any
        case, they are well outside the realm of homeopathy for our purposes.



        On Dec 19, 2011, at 2:20 AM, healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

        >
        > Fran does a good job explaining this clearly on her website, http://homeopathyplus.com.au/complex...w-to-use-them/
        >
        > Combos can be a good way to introduce new consumers to homeopathy
        > who may otherwise become discouraged if a single remedy is not the
        > right simillimum for them.
        >
        > I know when I had a UTI and looked at the repertory, there are so
        > many remedies listed for those rubrics, that I found it difficult to
        > choose the right one.
        > I ended up using a strong antibiotic Cipro, for a few weeks. The
        > pain and discomfort was just too great to keep on searching.
        >
        > I've seen combos which blend the same potency of various remedies,
        > say all 30X and also combos of various potencies of the same remedy
        > with X's and C's. I remember reading Hahnemann doing some
        > experiment with combos and discarding the idaea, not sure if any
        > were done with same remedy at various potencies simultaneously.
        >
        > Susan
        >
        >
        > Sue Startup wrote:
        >
        > Then why do you sell combination remedies on you Website?
        >
        >
        > On 19/12/2011, at 5:57 PM, Fran Sheffield wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> Tracking different types of homeopathy?????????????????
        >>
        >> I haven't been following this discussion closely but those who will
        >> pull
        >> people into line in the future about what is homeopathy and what
        >> isn't
        >> are the consumers.
        >>
        >> The current product confusion between standard homeopathic remedies
        >> and
        >> complexes of all sorts has been created by manufacturers. It is not
        >> something that is accepted, encouraged, or supported by the educated
        >> consumer.
        >>
        >> Once consumers know the difference between a homeopathic remedy and a
        >> combination remedy they become quite strident about wrong
        >> labelling. All
        >> it takes is a little education.
        >>
        >> Those who want to have 'different types' of homeopathy will be
        >> eventually be pulled into line by these consumers who, once they know
        >> the difference between a standard remedy and an anything goes
        >> complex,
        >> and once they start advocating for homeopathy, they are like reformed
        >> smokers - there are no shades of gray. They and the skeptics will
        >> sort
        >> the situation out.
        >>
        >> Kind Regards,
        >>
        >> Fran Sheffield

        >
        >

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Combos vs. Singles

          On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:39 AM, Irene de Villiers wrote:

          >
          > On Dec 19, 2011, at 12:20 AM, healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:
          >
          >> Combos can be a good way to introduce new consumers to homeopathy

          >
          > A combo is not homeopathy; it fails Hahnemasnn's definition of the
          > word adn also the Law of Similars.


          Fails Hahnemann's definition, yes.
          But as to the law of similars, that will have been used to arrive at
          the *choices* of remedies included.


          > ONLY a similar remedy will help - so no point using anything else
          > "to introduce someone to homeopathy".


          It is a *fact* that they often help, especially (and presumably only?)
          *if* the combo includes a remedy that is indeed homeopathic to the case.

          We have two considerations:
          (a) is the process of using combos itself "homeopathy, as per
          Hahnemann's definition"?
          No, it isn't -- because he excluded them, in his chosen definition.

          and
          (b) Does the process of choosing and/or formulating a combination
          homeopathic remedy employ principles of homeopathy? (I'll stick with
          best-case scenario for the moment.)
          Yes, it does (can)--symptom similarity between the case *and the
          single remedies chosen*.


          >
          > An introduction to mixology will only disappoint and cauase trauma
          > from its later misuse.


          ? What sort of scenario do you have in mind here?


          > ......Irene
          > --
          > Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
          > P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
          > www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
          > "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Combos vs. Singles

            On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:48 AM, Fran Sheffield wrote:

            > It is certainly an area we need more research in. For starters:
            >
            > 1. Do complexes cancel out some of the pathogenetic symptoms of some
            > of
            > the remedies in the mix (I think they do).


            I have been told -- in years long past -- that some homeopaths would
            make up complexes for a patient based upon good knowledge of how those
            remedies were known to interact with each other. (In most cases this
            appears not to be the case, tho.)

            > 2. Does the same thing happen with chords of potencies in a complex.


            Some people use chords regularly. I wonder if any of those people are
            on here now, and if they would feel brave enough to mention it? :o)
            I can't now remember who'd mentioned it -- in years long past, before
            civil discussion of "disputed areas" had become to energetically
            rejected by certain members.


            > 3. How many remedies and how many potencies are too much (I am shocked
            > at the number going into some complexes).


            I wonder if you are thinking of something like the Apex formulas?
            Huge numbers of remedies and potencies. But they are both used and
            formulated by something different from the familiar homeopathic
            process. That's about all I know about that... Reading the
            ingredients list it *looks* like a sort of combination homeopathic
            (because of some familiar names, and also because of potency labels),
            but they aren't, and aren't marketed as such.

            > ...
            >
            > I used to think they were the devil's work but now accept them, take
            > advantage of the openings they create, and try to educate people about
            > their sensible role and appropriate use. In this way excesses and
            > misinformation can be controlled and people introduced to real
            > homeopathy by comparison and contrast. If we don't do that they
            > confuse
            > everything as homeopathy.


            This makes complete sense to me...

            >
            > But .... we are now moving into an even more contious area - that of
            > potentised allopathica.


            ? Are you referring to potentized version of drugs, or ??


            > As the use if this type of remedy increases
            > there will be an even greater need for us to understand what
            > homeopathy
            > is and what it isn't. My opinion is that consumer awareness (and the
            > skeptics) will drive this.
            >
            > Kind Regards,
            >
            > Fran Sheffield


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Combos vs. Singles

              On 19 December 2011 23:43, Shannon Nelson <shannonnelson (AT) tds (DOT) net> wrote:

              >
              > On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:48 AM, Fran Sheffield wrote:
              >
              > > It is certainly an area we need more research in. For starters:
              > >
              > > 1. Do complexes cancel out some of the pathogenetic symptoms of some
              > > of
              > > the remedies in the mix (I think they do).

              >
              > I have been told -- in years long past -- that some homeopaths would
              > make up complexes for a patient based upon good knowledge of how those
              > remedies were known to interact with each other. (In most cases this
              > appears not to be the case, tho.)
              >


              That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time! Good knowledge? Of
              drug interactions? Hilarious! Thank you, Shannon. Good knowledge!



              > 2. Does the same thing happen with chords of potencies in a complex.
              >
              > Some people use chords regularly. I wonder if any of those people are
              > on here now, and if they would feel brave enough to mention it? :o)
              > I can't now remember who'd mentioned it -- in years long past, before
              > civil discussion of "disputed areas" had become to energetically
              > rejected by certain members.
              >


              There's no reason for them to fear the ire of homoeopaths if they're not
              going to claim that polypharmacy is a "kind" of homoeopathy!



              > 3. How many remedies and how many potencies are too much (I am shocked
              > > at the number going into some complexes).

              >
              > I wonder if you are thinking of something like the Apex formulas?
              > Huge numbers of remedies and potencies. But they are both used and
              > formulated by something different from the familiar homeopathic
              > process. That's about all I know about that... Reading the
              > ingredients list it *looks* like a sort of combination homeopathic
              > (because of some familiar names, and also because of potency labels),
              > but they aren't, and aren't marketed as such.
              >


              There you go again. All combinations are in the same boat, Shannon, in
              terms of whether they're homoeopathic to anything or anybody. The
              conjecture that similarity of one symptom makes it somehow homoeopathic
              inherently assumes that other medicineswill not share a single symptom with
              the patient. Do you know a single medicine that you can say with
              reasonable certainty does not have in common with anybody you know a single
              symptom?

              When you begin applying your critical faculties to this combination stuff,
              you see that actually it's so much hot air and not much else.

              The follow-up is of course another area that polypharmacists can say
              nothing about.

              Anyway, I'll be interested to see answers to my questions, Shannon, when
              you're ready.

              Kind regards,

              John

              --


              "And if care became the ethical basis of citizenship? Our parliaments,
              guided by such ideas, would be very different places."


              —Paul Ginsborg, *Democracy: Crisis and Renewal*, London: Profile, 2008.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Combos vs. Singles

                Hi, Shannon, For what it's worth (it doesn't say anything about chords), I
                had an interesting experience with a combo remedy a few months back -- I
                found it instructive. I was in New York, came down with a terrible cold,
                analyzed the symptoms, and realized it would respond to Kali-i. I did not
                have that remedy with me, and couldn't find it in Whole Foods or any place I
                could identify near me. At CVS Pharmacy, where I went to get Tylenol, I
                found a homeopathic combo cold remedy that when I read the label I saw
                contained Kali-i. I thought, Oh, what the heck?" I got it and tried it,
                and was astounded when it worked beautifully. So apparently if the remedy
                you really really need is in a combo it can still act without being canceled
                out by the other remedies. This makes sense in light of what I learned in
                school that if you don't need a remedy it won't have an effect on you,
                unless you take it to a point of proving.

                It made me feel a whole lot less negative than I had, to combination
                remedies.

                Like I said, for what it's worth. I still find that ordinarily the right
                remedy, taken singly, works much better than combinations, most of the time.


                Warmly, Rosemary

                Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase,
                just take the first step."
                ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
                [mailto:homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Shannon Nelson
                Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 7:43 AM
                To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
                Subject: Re: [H] Combos vs. Singles


                On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:48 AM, Fran Sheffield wrote:

                > It is certainly an area we need more research in. For starters:
                >
                > 1. Do complexes cancel out some of the pathogenetic symptoms of some
                > of
                > the remedies in the mix (I think they do).


                I have been told -- in years long past -- that some homeopaths would make up
                complexes for a patient based upon good knowledge of how those remedies were
                known to interact with each other. (In most cases this appears not to be
                the case, tho.)

                > 2. Does the same thing happen with chords of potencies in a complex.


                Some people use chords regularly. I wonder if any of those people are
                on here now, and if they would feel brave enough to mention it? :o)
                I can't now remember who'd mentioned it -- in years long past, before civil
                discussion of "disputed areas" had become to energetically rejected by
                certain members.


                > 3. How many remedies and how many potencies are too much (I am shocked
                > at the number going into some complexes).


                I wonder if you are thinking of something like the Apex formulas?
                Huge numbers of remedies and potencies. But they are both used and
                formulated by something different from the familiar homeopathic process.
                That's about all I know about that... Reading the ingredients list it
                *looks* like a sort of combination homeopathic (because of some familiar
                names, and also because of potency labels), but they aren't, and aren't
                marketed as such.

                > ...
                >
                > I used to think they were the devil's work but now accept them, take
                > advantage of the openings they create, and try to educate people about
                > their sensible role and appropriate use. In this way excesses and
                > misinformation can be controlled and people introduced to real
                > homeopathy by comparison and contrast. If we don't do that they
                > confuse everything as homeopathy.


                This makes complete sense to me...

                >
                > But .... we are now moving into an even more contious area - that of
                > potentised allopathica.


                ? Are you referring to potentized version of drugs, or ??


                > As the use if this type of remedy increases there will be an even
                > greater need for us to understand what homeopathy is and what it
                > isn't. My opinion is that consumer awareness (and the
                > skeptics) will drive this.
                >
                > Kind Regards,
                >
                > Fran Sheffield


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Combos vs. Singles

                  On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shannon Nelson wrote:

                  > But as to the law of similars, that will have been used to arrive at
                  > the *choices* of remedies included.


                  Not possible....
                  Law of Similars says the symptoms of the PATIENT must be similar to the symptoms of the remedy.

                  With a mix, there is no patient - hence no law of similars involved.

                  ...........Irene
                  --
                  Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
                  P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
                  www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
                  "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."






                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Combos vs. Singles

                    Was your "cure" proceeded by an initial aggravation?
                    Jamie

                    On 19/12/2011 14:26, Rosemary C. Hyde, PhD. wrote:
                    > Hi, Shannon, For what it's worth (it doesn't say anything about chords), I
                    > had an interesting experience with a combo remedy a few months back -- I
                    > found it instructive. I was in New York, came down with a terrible cold,
                    > analyzed the symptoms, and realized it would respond to Kali-i. I did not
                    > have that remedy with me, and couldn't find it in Whole Foods or any place I
                    > could identify near me. At CVS Pharmacy, where I went to get Tylenol, I
                    > found a homeopathic combo cold remedy that when I read the label I saw
                    > contained Kali-i. I thought, Oh, what the heck?" I got it and tried it,
                    > and was astounded when it worked beautifully. So apparently if the remedy
                    > you really really need is in a combo it can still act without being canceled
                    > out by the other remedies. This makes sense in light of what I learned in
                    > school that if you don't need a remedy it won't have an effect on you,
                    > unless you take it to a point of proving.
                    >
                    > It made me feel a whole lot less negative than I had, to combination
                    > remedies.
                    >
                    > Like I said, for what it's worth. I still find that ordinarily the right
                    > remedy, taken singly, works much better than combinations, most of the time.
                    >
                    >
                    > Warmly, Rosemary
                    >
                    > Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase,
                    > just take the first step."
                    > ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
                    > [mailto:homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Shannon Nelson
                    > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 7:43 AM
                    > To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
                    > Subject: Re: [H] Combos vs. Singles
                    >
                    >
                    > On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:48 AM, Fran Sheffield wrote:
                    >
                    >> It is certainly an area we need more research in. For starters:
                    >>
                    >> 1. Do complexes cancel out some of the pathogenetic symptoms of some
                    >> of
                    >> the remedies in the mix (I think they do).

                    > I have been told -- in years long past -- that some homeopaths would make up
                    > complexes for a patient based upon good knowledge of how those remedies were
                    > known to interact with each other. (In most cases this appears not to be
                    > the case, tho.)
                    >
                    >> 2. Does the same thing happen with chords of potencies in a complex.

                    > Some people use chords regularly. I wonder if any of those people are
                    > on here now, and if they would feel brave enough to mention it? :o)
                    > I can't now remember who'd mentioned it -- in years long past, before civil
                    > discussion of "disputed areas" had become to energetically rejected by
                    > certain members.
                    >
                    >
                    >> 3. How many remedies and how many potencies are too much (I am shocked
                    >> at the number going into some complexes).

                    > I wonder if you are thinking of something like the Apex formulas?
                    > Huge numbers of remedies and potencies. But they are both used and
                    > formulated by something different from the familiar homeopathic process.
                    > That's about all I know about that... Reading the ingredients list it
                    > *looks* like a sort of combination homeopathic (because of some familiar
                    > names, and also because of potency labels), but they aren't, and aren't
                    > marketed as such.
                    >
                    >> ...
                    >>
                    >> I used to think they were the devil's work but now accept them, take
                    >> advantage of the openings they create, and try to educate people about
                    >> their sensible role and appropriate use. In this way excesses and
                    >> misinformation can be controlled and people introduced to real
                    >> homeopathy by comparison and contrast. If we don't do that they
                    >> confuse everything as homeopathy.

                    > This makes complete sense to me...
                    >
                    >> But .... we are now moving into an even more contious area - that of
                    >> potentised allopathica.

                    > ? Are you referring to potentized version of drugs, or ??
                    >
                    >
                    >> As the use if this type of remedy increases there will be an even
                    >> greater need for us to understand what homeopathy is and what it
                    >> isn't. My opinion is that consumer awareness (and the
                    >> skeptics) will drive this.
                    >>
                    >> Kind Regards,
                    >>
                    >> Fran Sheffield

                    >

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Combos vs. Singles

                      Good point. It's always the patient who's overlooked in this kind of
                      prescribing (setting aside something like Rosemary's experience, in which
                      the effort had been made to find a single medicine).

                      John

                      On 20 December 2011 01:31, Irene de Villiers <furryboots (AT) icehouse (DOT) net>wrote:

                      >
                      > On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shannon Nelson wrote:
                      >
                      > > But as to the law of similars, that will have been used to arrive at
                      > > the *choices* of remedies included.

                      >
                      > Not possible....
                      > Law of Similars says the symptoms of the PATIENT must be similar to the
                      > symptoms of the remedy.
                      >
                      > With a mix, there is no patient - hence no law of similars involved.



                      --


                      "And if care became the ethical basis of citizenship? Our parliaments,
                      guided by such ideas, would be very different places."


                      —Paul Ginsborg, *Democracy: Crisis and Renewal*, London: Profile, 2008.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Combos vs. Singles

                        Jamie, it may be worth clarifying whether you meant "preceded" or
                        "succeeded".

                        John



                        On 20 December 2011 01:47, Jamie Taylor
                        <jamie.taylor (AT) theleaffoundation (DOT) org>wrote:

                        > Was your "cure" proceeded by an initial aggravation?
                        > Jamie



                        --


                        "And if care became the ethical basis of citizenship? Our parliaments,
                        guided by such ideas, would be very different places."


                        —Paul Ginsborg, *Democracy: Crisis and Renewal*, London: Profile, 2008.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Combos vs. Singles

                          From what I have read, "in the old days" "real homeopaths" sometimes
                          *would* make up combos for their patients to use, in between visits,
                          for those acutes that the patient or family were prone to.

                          This would be an example of what you are saying.

                          In the case of off-the-shelf remedies, of course the "patient" is
                          attempting to match their own symptoms to those listed in the package
                          insert (or, as in Rosemary's case, to what they know about the
                          included remedies).

                          But, um, how can A be similar to B, but B not be similar to A? I
                          understand what you are saying in terms of the *process* we go through
                          in matching patient and remedy, but in context I think this is getting
                          nitpicky to the point of meaninglessness. In any case of *course* the
                          search begins with the symptoms of the patient--why else are they
                          looking for a remedy???????


                          On Dec 19, 2011, at 8:31 AM, Irene de Villiers wrote:

                          >
                          > On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shannon Nelson wrote:
                          >
                          >> But as to the law of similars, that will have been used to arrive at
                          >> the *choices* of remedies included.

                          >
                          > Not possible....
                          > Law of Similars says the symptoms of the PATIENT must be similar to
                          > the symptoms of the remedy.
                          >
                          > With a mix, there is no patient - hence no law of similars involved.
                          >
                          > ..........Irene
                          > --
                          > Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
                          > P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
                          > www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
                          > "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Combos vs. Singles

                            Why do you feel that matters?
                            H does say that the "ideal" is a cure in which the initial aggravation
                            is so small as to be unnoticed or even unnoticeable.



                            On Dec 19, 2011, at 8:47 AM, Jamie Taylor wrote:

                            > Was your "cure" proceeded by an initial aggravation?
                            > Jamie
                            >
                            > On 19/12/2011 14:26, Rosemary C. Hyde, PhD. wrote:
                            >> Hi, Shannon, For what it's worth (it doesn't say anything about
                            >> chords), I
                            >> had an interesting experience with a combo remedy a few months back
                            >> -- I
                            >> found it instructive. I was in New York, came down with a terrible
                            >> cold,
                            >> analyzed the symptoms, and realized it would respond to Kali-i. I
                            >> did not
                            >> have that remedy with me, and couldn't find it in Whole Foods or
                            >> any place I
                            >> could identify near me. At CVS Pharmacy, where I went to get
                            >> Tylenol, I
                            >> found a homeopathic combo cold remedy that when I read the label I
                            >> saw
                            >> contained Kali-i. I thought, Oh, what the heck?" I got it and
                            >> tried it,
                            >> and was astounded when it worked beautifully. So apparently if the
                            >> remedy
                            >> you really really need is in a combo it can still act without being
                            >> canceled
                            >> out by the other remedies. This makes sense in light of what I
                            >> learned in
                            >> school that if you don't need a remedy it won't have an effect on
                            >> you,
                            >> unless you take it to a point of proving.
                            >>
                            >> It made me feel a whole lot less negative than I had, to combination
                            >> remedies.
                            >>
                            >> Like I said, for what it's worth. I still find that ordinarily the
                            >> right
                            >> remedy, taken singly, works much better than combinations, most of
                            >> the time.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Warmly, Rosemary
                            >>
                            >> Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole
                            >> staircase,
                            >> just take the first step."
                            >> ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> -----Original Message-----
                            >> From: homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
                            >> [mailto:homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Shannon Nelson
                            >> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 7:43 AM
                            >> To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
                            >> Subject: Re: [H] Combos vs. Singles
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:48 AM, Fran Sheffield wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> It is certainly an area we need more research in. For starters:
                            >>>
                            >>> 1. Do complexes cancel out some of the pathogenetic symptoms of some
                            >>> of
                            >>> the remedies in the mix (I think they do).

                            >> I have been told -- in years long past -- that some homeopaths
                            >> would make up
                            >> complexes for a patient based upon good knowledge of how those
                            >> remedies were
                            >> known to interact with each other. (In most cases this appears not
                            >> to be
                            >> the case, tho.)
                            >>
                            >>> 2. Does the same thing happen with chords of potencies in a complex.

                            >> Some people use chords regularly. I wonder if any of those people
                            >> are
                            >> on here now, and if they would feel brave enough to mention it? :o)
                            >> I can't now remember who'd mentioned it -- in years long past,
                            >> before civil
                            >> discussion of "disputed areas" had become to energetically rejected
                            >> by
                            >> certain members.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>> 3. How many remedies and how many potencies are too much (I am
                            >>> shocked
                            >>> at the number going into some complexes).

                            >> I wonder if you are thinking of something like the Apex formulas?
                            >> Huge numbers of remedies and potencies. But they are both used and
                            >> formulated by something different from the familiar homeopathic
                            >> process.
                            >> That's about all I know about that... Reading the ingredients list
                            >> it
                            >> *looks* like a sort of combination homeopathic (because of some
                            >> familiar
                            >> names, and also because of potency labels), but they aren't, and
                            >> aren't
                            >> marketed as such.
                            >>
                            >>> ...
                            >>>
                            >>> I used to think they were the devil's work but now accept them, take
                            >>> advantage of the openings they create, and try to educate people
                            >>> about
                            >>> their sensible role and appropriate use. In this way excesses and
                            >>> misinformation can be controlled and people introduced to real
                            >>> homeopathy by comparison and contrast. If we don't do that they
                            >>> confuse everything as homeopathy.

                            >> This makes complete sense to me...
                            >>
                            >>> But .... we are now moving into an even more contious area - that of
                            >>> potentised allopathica.

                            >> ? Are you referring to potentized version of drugs, or ??
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>> As the use if this type of remedy increases there will be an even
                            >>> greater need for us to understand what homeopathy is and what it
                            >>> isn't. My opinion is that consumer awareness (and the
                            >>> skeptics) will drive this.
                            >>>
                            >>> Kind Regards,
                            >>>
                            >>> Fran Sheffield

                            >>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Combos vs. Singles

                              On Dec 19, 2011, at 9:01 AM, John Harvey wrote:

                              > Good point. It's always the patient who's overlooked in this kind of
                              > prescribing (setting aside something like Rosemary's experience, in
                              > which
                              > the effort had been made to find a single medicine).


                              Ummmmmm......... you're bringing a heckuva lot of assumptions to this
                              statement!
                              Which, again, are muddying the waters by mixing multiple issues that
                              are not necessarily that related to the core questions.

                              So in Rosemary's case it was still not-homeopathy, because there were
                              other remedies there,
                              Or was it homeopathy because she had actually done the work to
                              properly identify the needed remedy?



                              >
                              > John
                              >
                              > On 20 December 2011 01:31, Irene de Villiers
                              > <furryboots (AT) icehouse (DOT) net>wrote:
                              >
                              >>
                              >> On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shannon Nelson wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> But as to the law of similars, that will have been used to arrive at
                              >>> the *choices* of remedies included.

                              >>
                              >> Not possible....
                              >> Law of Similars says the symptoms of the PATIENT must be similar to
                              >> the
                              >> symptoms of the remedy.
                              >>
                              >> With a mix, there is no patient - hence no law of similars involved.

                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              >
                              > "And if care became the ethical basis of citizenship? Our
                              > parliaments,
                              > guided by such ideas, would be very different places."
                              >
                              >
                              > Paul Ginsborg, *Democracy: Crisis and Renewal*, London: Profile,
                              > 2008.
                              >

                              Comment

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