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  • #16
    Re: Fw: Eizayaga Method

    Originally posted by Shannon
    Funny, Luise! ;-)
    No, sarcastic!!


    You might have noticed that I took over the description of the homeopath and the method from the post right before it.

    Luise

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Fw: Eizayaga Method

      I noticed. But since there was no particular reason to directed it at Martha, it seemed reasonable to take it as general humor. The designation of "diseased" seems a tad harsh (especially since I've yet to hear anyone suggest that his approach doesn't do what it claims), but that's not my affair. Airing the different viewpoints and reactions is valuable I think, and the fact that we do not all agree definitely lends "spice".

      Best,
      Shannon

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Fw: Eizayaga Method

        Yes, sarcasm comes usually from natural sources.

        Whenever, Hahnemann is defended,
        Whenever the single remedy is praised,
        Whenever the lesional , suppressive treatment is condemned,
        Whenever homeopaths are invited to come out of the 4th organon methods,
        AND , whenever a non time tested method is criticized,

        You are sure to find them and those sources are ever ready to react.

        Well, I respect Eizayaga and his intentions to cure. The reference to 'diseased' by Dr Luc, was due to his criticism of aqueous doses. May be Dr Luc would explain better. Regarding cures, everyone has made them, even the complex prescribers. We had (or have ?) some who claimed to have treated more than 100,000 cases with those complexes. But such physicians were not treated sarcastically by the list. (rather dismissed mentally).

        Venkat

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        • #19
          Re: Fw: Eizayaga Method

          But Shannon, I believe this spice is not for all other dishes and strictly on 'case to case'. Still enjoying

          Venkat

          Comment


          • #20
            RE: Fw: Eizayaga Method

            Seems to me, as Venkat seems to me to be saying, that many roads lead to Rome, or there are many ways to skin a cat, or Truth is One, Paths are Many. I loved Luise's sarcasm, BTW, but the bitter, cutting kind is a horse of a different color.

            Teresa (in VA)

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            • #21
              Re: Fw: Eizayaga Method

              Hi Martha,

              I hope you realized that my sarcasm was not directed at you.
              If you did not, I apologize.

              Regards
              Luise

              Comment


              • #22
                RE: Eizayaga Method

                Originally posted by Teresa
                I loved Luise's sarcasm, BTW, but the bitter, cutting kind is a horse of a different color. Teresa (in VA)
                Over which you have no control whatsoever.


                What would be the rubric for: "plays the hapless victim"?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Fw: Eizayaga Method

                  Hi Luise:

                  Of course I realized it was not directed at me. I always enjoy reading your opinions Luise and was just trying to insert some balance into my defense of Dr. Eizayaga's methods. I can't speak to Dr. Eizayaga's perspectives on prescribing; I only know that my friend is alive 22 years later, something that probably would not have been possible had the current medical system intervened in the way they wanted to. Chemotherapy would probably have been introduced and I'm not sure, given her condition, that my friend would have survived. So, yes, Dr. Eizayaga was a hero in my eyes. I'll insert an interesting note here and one which I'm sure my friend would not mind my disclosing, since I'm not identifying her. Her husband had committed suicide a year prior to her diagnosis of 2nd stage breast cancer. So the Nat Mur 200c that Dr. Eizayaga prescribed to be taken after the 2 doses of Conium, was well placed and she worked through the grieving process, something she had been unable to do up to that point.

                  I always look forward to members opinions (particularly yours and Shannon's). I only draw the line at good vs bad manners when someone is being abusive, and you certainly were not Luise, so please don't apologize. My opinion was indeed contrary to yours (still is) and I'm sure you respect that as well.

                  All the best!
                  Martha

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Eizayaga Method

                    Which part of Teresa's post says "victim" to you?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Eizayaga Method

                      "...but the bitter, cutting kind..."

                      Oh my!

                      ---

                      So what? In real life there are actually people who do not suffer fools gladly. Get over it.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Eizayaga Method

                        Working ways for the right rubric and remedy. Especially the delusional aspect.The theme is different -"A mosquito thinking of ways to slay humans". Who said they don't have 'minds'?

                        But to people generally it is a slight nuisance and one can easily get over it. The difference is in the level of existence.

                        Venkat

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Eizayaga method

                          Hi Teresa,

                          Jumping from 6 daily to 30c daily is *quite* a jump, and to me it seems quite likely that this is why you had a problem!!

                          I wonder what would have happened if you'd repeated "as needed" rather than "daily"? In that case jumping from 6 to 30 would (most likely) not have been a problem, and the 30 might have needed repeating only infrequently.

                          Shannon

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            RE: eizayaga method

                            Hello all,

                            I wanted to comment on the Eizayaga's suggestions in pathological cases, etc. It is my experience that the "constitutional remedy" is not always appropriate for one-side states, old stubborn local conditions, and advanced organic pathology. After all, even Kent said when speaking of advanced pathology, "Do not give them constitutional remedy they needed 20 years ago!" This is because it is too late to use this method. In some cases, the outcome of using such remedies is prolonged aggravation not follow by amelioration.

                            In such cases I find that Boenninghausen's method using location, sensation, modifications centered on the main complaints and the concomitants leads to remedies that are distinctly individualized yet centered on the advanced pathology. If one carefully studies the concomitant symptoms the potential to suppress is removed. Such a medicine may play the role of what some call the lesional, drainage, organ or tissue remedy in such cases. The remedy may be focused directly at the pathology in the regions while still taking into account the uniqueness of each individual constitution. In this manner the pathology can be reversed as the vitality increases. As the pathological time line reverses one may find that they may be able to give the patient the constitutional remedy they needed 20 years ago if necessary to complete the cure!

                            I have also found that low potencies like 6c, 12c, etc., are often useful in such cases, especially when their is advanced organic pathology, sensitivity and low vitality with an unstable VF. In some cases, I work the patient up through the low potencies to 30c and then switch to the LM 0/1 if I feel the jump to 200c is inappropriate. I would be much happier if potencies like the 60c, 100c, 150c were more readily available.

                            As to the repetition of the dry dose - I would think that most problems would be avoided if the practitioner was vigilant and stopped the remedy at any sign of a strikingly increasing amelioration (the best sign), any appearance of an similar aggravation (sign of over medication), or the appearance of strong new symptoms (sign of a wrong remedy). If such signs are watch for and the case management strategies prepared to make need changes most problems should be overcome. I also would not discount the effectiveness of giving a single test dose even of these low potencies! Many times such a dose produces a strikingly increasing amelioration!

                            Of course, I prefer the use of the medicinal solution in split-doses to the repetition of the dry pills for a good number of reasons. First of all, it keeps the size of the dose to minimum by restricting the number of pills given to the patient. Secondly, the medicinal solution can be succussed prior to repetition so that the VF never receives the exact same potency twice in succession. This method seems to keep the remedy active while reducing the potential for aggravations. Third the medicinal solution allows for the careful adjustment of the remedy when necessary. This advanced method was tailor made for the repetition of the remedy in protracted diseases to speed the cure. Nevertheless, the same precautions are needed when using the medicinal solution and split-dose as the dry dose.

                            Sincerely, David Little

                            PS. I don't really consider Dr. E's method non-Hahnemann in extreme as to treating one-sided or local diseases diseases, and advanced pathology, etc. After all he uses likes cures likes and one single potentized remedy at a time. Hahnemann suggested repeating remedies to speed the cure when necessary in the 5th and 6th Organon although Dr.E's posology is not as sophisticated as Hahnemann's. His methods seem to be more of a variation on a general theme rather than a complete break with the major principles. He is not mixing up 10 remedies by disease names and giving them at once!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: eizayaga method

                              Hello David and Friends,

                              I cannot even suggest I can speak for Eizayaga's method, however I am currently being treated by a homeopath who studied with Eizayaga. Tito comes from Columbia, and his method is somewhat different from what 'we' are used to, but definitely, as David said, not "non Hahnemannian".

                              David, you have come the closest in what you have written to what I have experienced with Tito.

                              more comments in the body of your letter below:

                              Originally posted by David
                              I wanted to comment on the Eizayaga's suggestions in pathological cases, etc. It is my experience that the "constitutional remedy" is not always appropriate for one-side states, old stubborn local conditions, and advanced organic pathology.
                              Yes, most definitely!

                              I think we rely a bit too much on the 'one remedy for everything' routine, thus possibly veering away from true Hahnemannian 'clinical' work.

                              (After having been treated with 'one' remedy for a couple of years, by a very classical homeopath, and I started proving the remedy despite it doing me a lot of good, I had to abandon that remedy.) The real shock to me was that Tito started me on 'sulphur' and then thuja, which kinda cleared the field so to speak, I beleive I took 30C potencies for awhile and they did me a lot of good. So, basically we went back to square one.

                              Originally posted by David
                              In such cases I find that Boenninghausen's method using location, sensation, modifications centered on the main complaints and the concomitants leads to remedies that are distinctly individualized yet centered on the advanced pathology.
                              Yes, I believe that is exactly how he thought, however I will forward this letter to Tito for further commets.

                              Originally posted by David
                              I have also found that low potencies like 6c, 12c, etc., are often useful in such cases, especially when their is advanced organic pathology, sensitivity and low vitality with an unstable VF. In some cases, I work the patient up through the low potencies to 30c
                              I believe this is what Tito does also, and depending on the situation will even start with 30C, he also uses some type of herbals with it in the beginning for a kind of clean out. (this may be his own method) but that ends very quickly.

                              Originally posted by David
                              and then switch to the LM 0/1 if I feel the jump to 200c is inappropriate.
                              David, having learned my LM use from you, I too do it this way. Those LMs are so useful,

                              Originally posted by David
                              I would be much happier if potencies like the 60c, 100c, 150c were more readily available.
                              Although Tito does use LMs, he also uses these above potencies, and all in aqueous dilutions. So he takes someone from a 30C, and moves them to the 60C, etc - And he makes these potencies himself if needed. (I don't know if they are available in South America)


                              Originally posted by David
                              As to the repetition of the dry dose - I would think that most problems would be avoided if the practitioner was vigilant and stopped the remedy at any sign of a strikingly increasing amelioration (the best sign)
                              I have only known Tito to use a dry dose on very infrequent occasions (intercurrents), but if a second dose was to be needed it is always done aqueous.



                              Another comment here, Tito most certainly uses high potencies, very, very, very high potencies, such as LM 200's and maybe even much higher. I don't know much about this, as we have not had extensive discussions on it. But from what I understand to go after the miasmatic tendencies the South American homeopaths will go very high.

                              Also, once I discussed Massimo Mangialavori's comment that 'we' homeopaths will not be able to help 1/3 of our patients (Massimo is truly the 'one remedy' homeopath, and I very much enjoy his methods and ways of working so don't take this as any kind of criticism to Massimo), but Tito said with Hahnemann's methods he felt that the1/3 number could be cut in half.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: eizayaga method

                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Originally posted by David
                                I wanted to comment on the Eizayaga's suggestions in pathological cases, etc. It is my experience that the "constitutional remedy" is not always appropriate for one-side states, old stubborn local conditions, and advanced organic pathology.
                                Yes, most definitely! I think we rely a bit too much on the 'one remedy for everything' routine, thus possibly veering away from true Hahnemannian 'clinical' work.
                                Originally posted by Maria
                                (After having been treated with 'one' remedy for a couple of years, by a very classical homeopath, and I started proving the remedy despite it doing me a lot of good, I had to abandon that remedy.) The real shock to me was that Tito started me on 'sulphur' and then thuja, which kinda cleared the field so to speak, I beleive I took 30C potencies for awhile and they did me a lot of good. So, basically we went back to square one.
                                The one remedy for all situations (acute, chronic, functional, pathological, etc.) is a therapeutic absolute that does not hold true in the relative world of clinical practice. Of course, I have cases where one remedy does seem to be global in regards to an individual patient. I am always quite happy when this happens but that does not mean that this is suitable for patient under every time and circumstances. First and foremost, homeopathy is a system of flexible response that can be tailor to a wide variety of clinical situations.
                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Originally posted by David
                                In such cases I find that Boenninghausen's method using location, sensation, modifications centered on the main complaints and the concomitants leads to remedies that are distinctly individualized yet centered on the advanced pathology.
                                Yes, I believe that is exactly how he thought, however I will forward this letter to Tito for further commets.
                                I find that some who wish to use so-called drainage, organ, tissue, of systems remedies limit themselves to a few well known remedies that may or may not work on the individual. If one carefully studies the regions, sensations and modalities of the main complaint and balances this by a study of the concomitant symptoms in other areas, the number of potential remedies and their effectiveness is greatly increased. In this way, one selects remedy that are based on the characteristic symptoms of the individual rather than a few so-called specifics.

                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Originally posted by David
                                I have also found that low potencies like 6c, 12c, etc., are often useful in such cases, especially when their is advanced organic pathology, sensitivity and low vitality with an unstable VF. In some cases, I work the patient up through the low potencies to 30c
                                I believe this is what Tito does also, and depending on the situation will even start with 30C, he also uses some type of herbals with it in the beginning for a kind of clean out. (this may be his own method) but that ends very quickly.
                                In cases where the organs of elimination are compromised there are often cleansing crises that often involve suffering and an increase of symptoms. For this reason, it is sometimes good to use the location, sensation, modification and concomitant method to select a remedy that can remove this condition. In this case, the clear mental symptoms are used as differentiating or confirmatory symptom. Always giving a constitutional remedy by the mental and generals (the above to below method) sometimes causes unneeded aggravations and crises in such cases.


                                Nevertheless, there is no reason to treat every patient with so-called drainage remedies, etc., in some routine, mechanistic manner. There are many cases where the constitutional remedy acts in a holographic manner and removes a great number of causes, predispositions and pathological onditions.
                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Originally posted by David
                                and then switch to the LM 0/1 if I feel the jump to 200c is inappropriate.
                                David, having learned my LM use from you, I too do it this way. Those LMs are so useful
                                Yes, this is good method I have used many, many times.

                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Originally posted by David
                                I would be much happier if potencies like the 60c, 100c, 150c were more readily available.
                                Although Tito does use LMs, he also uses these above potencies, and all in aqueous dilutions. So he takes someone from a 30C, and moves them to the 60C, etc - And he makes these potencies himself if needed. (I don't know if they are available in South America)
                                These potencies are hard to get in India and it is very difficult for us "Indians" to buy remedies in $ from the West. It is very expensive for those who are working in Asia on limited funds. The LMs are easily to make but the Cs are very difficult. I am glad to hear the "Tito" has taken advantage of the medicinal solutions, etc.

                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Originally posted by David
                                As to the repetition of the dry dose - I would think that most problems would be avoided if the practitioner was vigilant and stopped the remedy at any sign of a strikingly increasing amelioration (the best sign)
                                I have only known Tito to use a dry dose on very infrequent occasions (intercurrents), but if a second dose was to be needed it is always done aqueous.
                                It sounds like he as integrated Hahnemann's advanced posology methods into his system. I am glad to here this. There is rarely a need to give so many dry pills and such a method often leads to necessary complications.

                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Another comment here, Tito most certainly uses high potencies, very, very, very high potencies, such as LM 200's and maybe even much higher. I don't know much about this, as we have not had extensive discussions on it. But from what I understand to go after the miasmatic tendencies the South American homeopaths will go very high.
                                Are you saying he used the LM potency up to the 0/200! If so, that is the highest I have heard of. I have noticed the the better I select the remedy the less I seem to need ultra high potencies. I have seen lower to moderate LM potency affect the miasms very effectively. They seem to have an affinity with such states.

                                Originally posted by Maria
                                Also, once I discussed Massimo Mangialavori's comment that 'we' homeopaths will not be able to help 1/3 of our patients (Massimo is truly the 'one remedy' homeopath, and I very much enjoy his methods and ways of working so don't take this as any kind of criticism to Massimo), but Tito said with Hahnemann's methods he felt that the1/3 number could be cut in half.
                                First of all, one should learn their Hahnemannian fundamental very well. To many persons still do not know what they are missing by not do this in earnest. This helps one sort the "wheat from the chaff" and start their practice on a very strong foundation. Then one should study with a variety of homoeopaths using different styles and absorb what they a good and forget the rest. When one wishes to learn some very good insights into the materia medica then homeopaths like Massimo are excellent. When it comes to advanced posology, flexible case management and treating one-sided diseases, complex miasms, and heavy organic pathology then one must look somewhere else. 33% failure of our cases is a number that is too great to accept. This 33% most likely is made of those who do not suit the grand constitutional remedy that is supposed to be good for everything. Some cases must be worked carefully in layers. This is especially true of advance chronic diseases, complex miasms, and one-sided pathology in vital organs.

                                Originally posted by David
                                PS. I don't really consider Dr. E's method non-Hahnemann in extreme as to treating one-sided or local diseases diseases, and advanced pathology, etc. After all he uses likes cures likes and one single potentized remedy at a time. Hahnemann suggested repeating remedies to speed the cure when necessary in the 5th and 6th Organon although Dr.E's posology is not as sophisticated as Hahnemann's. His methods seem to be more of a variation on a general theme rather than a complete break with the major principles. He is not mixing up 10 remedies by disease names and giving them at once!
                                There are some who love to criticize what they see as "classical homeopathy" so they try to cleave wedges between those who use the similars cure similars and one single potentized remedy at a time. This is what classical or traditional homeopaths share and is the essence of what comes from the Founder. On this solid basis, there are many schools that highlight different aspects of practice but the core principles are very similar. This is what makes us all homeopaths.


                                There are those that wish to "divide and confuse' that place their own definitions on what they call classical homeopathy and then they refute their own projections in an effort to make others look like hypocrites. This is a trick used by lawyers, politicians and those with agendas that try to separate individuals into being either "for or against" their own personal version of reality. It is a waste of time to get too involved in such games but it is good to be aware that it is happening!

                                Ars Longa - Vita Brevis
                                Sincerely, David Little

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