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  • LACHESIS safety and potencies

    Dear all,

    Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.

    I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is little.

    I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe (without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in C and LM potencies?

    Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest potencies? (I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in low potencies, but is it safe?)

    Many thanks for your advice.

    Rafy

  • #2
    Re: [Minutus] LACHESIS safety and potencies

    It is a question of individual sensitivity...........Lachesis is the ONLY
    remedy I ever proved, many years ago, while testing the effects of a combo,
    in 6C.........there is not a single other remedy, in any potency, that I
    ever reacted to, and I did take many as I wanted to understand fully some of
    the remedies........and what better way than to do a proving, right???

    Never had any proving reaction except for Lachesis, but that is only me.....
    ....I intimately knew all the throat symptoms.......



    Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.

    "The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

    -------Original Message-------



    From: HomeoDidact

    Date: 7/05/2007 10:27:54 p.m.

    To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com; minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com

    Subject: [Minutus] LACHESIS safety and potencies



    Dear all,



    Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.



    I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
    little.



    I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
    (without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in C
    and LM potencies?



    Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest potencies?
    (I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
    low potencies, but is it safe?)



    Many thanks for your advice.



    Rafy

    __._,_.___

    Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

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    educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding
    the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read
    or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or
    email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
    remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
    individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental,
    special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.



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    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Re: [Minutus] LACHESIS safety and potencies

      At 09:59 AM 5/8/2007 +1200, Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD,NMD. wrote:
      >It is a question of individual sensitivity...........Lachesis is the ONLY
      >remedy I ever proved, many years ago, while testing the effects of a combo,
      >in 6C.........there is not a single other remedy, in any potency, that I
      >ever reacted to, and I did take many as I wanted to understand fully some of
      >the remedies........and what better way than to do a proving, right???
      >
      >Never had any proving reaction except for Lachesis, but that is only me.....
      >...I intimately knew all the throat symptoms.......
      >
      >
      >
      >Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.


      Same for me - the only remedy I ever had an aggravation on. Only remedy I
      ever did a proving on.

      First time given to me in a high dry dose and had the worst migraine (that
      was why I saw the homeopath - severe migraines) I ever had and then
      accessory symptoms followed that lasted years - severe pain in liver area.

      Later took an LM, too frequently (before I was a homeopath) and ended up in
      a cannibis state.

      Of course my homeopath, a famous homeopath/Vithoulkas Student/4th edition
      prescriber didn't recognize or admit that my symptoms were from his high
      dry dose Lachesis.
      Told that the excruciating pain in my liver was not from the remedy and
      that maybe I needed to go to the ER and then said maybe I needed to get my
      gall bladder out!

      See Abdomen, Pain, Liver - LACH IN BOLD

      Sheri
      >
      >
      >Date: 7/05/2007 10:27:54 p.m.
      >
      >To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com; minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
      >
      >Subject: [Minutus] LACHESIS safety and potencies
      >
      >
      >
      >Dear all,
      >
      >
      >
      >Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
      >
      >
      >
      >I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
      >little.
      >
      >
      >
      >I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
      >(without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in C
      >and LM potencies?
      >
      >
      >
      >Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest potencies?
      >(I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
      >low potencies, but is it safe?)
      >
      >
      >
      >Many thanks for your advice.
      >
      >
      >
      >Rafy
      >
      >__._,_.___
      >
      >Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
      >
      >Messages | Links | Polls | Members
      >
      >Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
      >
      >
      >
      >ATTENTION PLEASE:
      >
      >
      >
      >The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and
      >educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding
      >the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read
      >or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or
      >email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
      >remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
      >individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental,
      >special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
      >
      >
      >
      >****
      >
      >ATTENTION PLEASE!!
      >
      >
      >
      >If you do not wish to receive individual emails, you can simply change your
      >setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a single
      >daily digest.
      >
      >
      >
      >Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
      >
      >Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format
      >to Traditional
      >
      >Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity
      >
      >12New Members
      >
      >Visit Your Group
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      >SPONSORED LINKS
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      >What's your issue?
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      >
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      >
      >Find great discounts.
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      >Y! GeoCities
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      >Be Vocal
      >
      >Publish your opi-
      >
      >Nions with a blog.
      >
      >Y! Greetings
      >
      >Mothers Day eCards
      >
      >Send eCards to all
      >
      >The Moms you know.
      >
      >__,_._,___
      >
      >
      >

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Re: [Minutus] LACHESIS safety and potencies

        Hi all...
        I have some good words for Lachesis, since it's getting such a bad rap (just
        kidding). I realize we all are aware of it's potential, but because not
        much positive has been mentioned, I just wanted to say that Lachesis was the
        remedy that changed my very young son from a 'volcanic, hyper, foul-mouthed,
        tornado' into a human being. He is in his mid-20's now and one of the
        kindest, most sensitive persons you'll ever meet - as disciplined a person
        as you'll ever meet and responsible too, although he still has a temper that
        can let loose at unexpected moments...holes in walls, etc. I've been trying
        for literally YEARS to get him to go back to see a professional, but so far,
        no luck. He swears I'm "The Best" (which is sweet, but far from true!).
        He's also a bit of a tightwad...doesn't want to spend the money...lol. I'll
        get him to see a professional again if it's the last thing I do!
        The homeopath who prescribed Lachesis for him was Nancy Herrick. I have
        also taken Lachesis with great benefit. I don't recall the potencies,
        sorry, it was before I kept a journal, so many years ago.
        My best to all,
        Sati
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD,NMD." <jroz (AT) ihug (DOT) co.nz>
        To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
        Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 2:59 PM
        Subject: [H] Re: [Minutus] LACHESIS safety and potencies


        > It is a question of individual sensitivity...........Lachesis is the ONLY
        > remedy I ever proved, many years ago, while testing the effects of a
        > combo,
        > in 6C.........there is not a single other remedy, in any potency, that I
        > ever reacted to, and I did take many as I wanted to understand fully some
        > of
        > the remedies........and what better way than to do a proving, right???
        >
        > Never had any proving reaction except for Lachesis, but that is only
        > me.....
        > ...I intimately knew all the throat symptoms.......
        >
        >
        >
        > Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
        >
        > "The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".
        >
        > -------Original Message-------
        >
        >
        >
        > From: HomeoDidact
        >
        > Date: 7/05/2007 10:27:54 p.m.
        >
        > To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com; minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
        >
        > Subject: [Minutus] LACHESIS safety and potencies
        >
        >
        >
        > Dear all,
        >
        >
        >
        > Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
        >
        >
        >
        > I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
        > little.
        >
        >
        >
        > I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
        > (without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in
        > C
        > and LM potencies?
        >
        >
        >
        > Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest
        > potencies?
        > (I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
        > low potencies, but is it safe?)
        >
        >
        >
        > Many thanks for your advice.
        >
        >
        >
        > Rafy
        >
        > __._,_.___
        >
        > Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
        >
        > Messages | Links | Polls | Members
        >
        > Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
        >
        >
        >
        > ATTENTION PLEASE:
        >
        >
        >
        > The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy
        > and
        > educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding
        > the individual suitability of the information contained in any document
        > read
        > or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or
        > email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
        > remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
        > individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental,
        > special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
        >
        >
        >
        > ****
        >
        > ATTENTION PLEASE!!
        >
        >
        >
        > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, you can simply change
        > your
        > setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a single
        > daily digest.
        >
        >
        >
        > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
        >
        > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format
        > to Traditional
        >
        > Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent
        > Activity
        >
        > 12New Members
        >
        > Visit Your Group
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        >
        > What's your issue?
        >
        > Film it. Change the world.
        >
        > Find Deals
        >
        > Yahoo! Shopping
        >
        > Compare prices and
        >
        > Find great discounts.
        >
        > Y! GeoCities
        >
        > Be Vocal
        >
        > Publish your opi-
        >
        > Nions with a blog.
        >
        > Y! Greetings
        >
        > Mothers Day eCards
        >
        > Send eCards to all
        >
        > The Moms you know.
        >
        > __,_._,___
        >
        >
        >

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

          Hello Rafy,
          If Lachesis is the indicated remedy for you then ANY potency should be safe.
          When I'm in doubt I just start with a low potency, like a 6c or 12c, to see
          what effect it has. If nothing happens, (or something positive!), then I go
          up slowly. You might try starting with LM's (an LM1), but remember that
          LM's tend to aggravate towards the END of their action, so you'll have to
          wait it out fully...to be certain you've experienced the full effect.
          Give ONE dose, and wait, no matter what the potency. I found it's never
          safe to routinely give remedies in repetition (like "twice a day" or "three
          times a day"...it's baloney). Always wait to see what the effect of the
          remedy is before repeating it!
          Best of luck to you,
          Sati

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "HomeoDidact" <hrandco (AT) bezeqint (DOT) net>
          To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
          Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:25 AM
          Subject: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies


          Dear all,

          Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.

          I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
          little.

          I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
          (without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in C
          and LM potencies?

          Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest potencies?
          (I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
          low potencies, but is it safe?)

          Many thanks for your advice.

          Rafy

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

            At 02:22 PM 5/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
            >Hello Rafy,
            >If Lachesis is the indicated remedy for you then ANY potency should be safe.


            That is certainly NOT true. The wrong dose or potency can cause aggravation

            Part of individualization is the right dose and the right potency for the
            person.

            >When I'm in doubt I just start with a low potency, like a 6c or 12c, to see
            >what effect it has. If nothing happens, (or something positive!), then I go
            >up slowly. You might try starting with LM's (an LM1), but remember that
            >LM's tend to aggravate towards the END of their action, so you'll have to
            >wait it out fully...to be certain you've experienced the full effect.


            All remedies given in water, as Hahnemann taught, aggravate toward the end.

            >Give ONE dose, and wait, no matter what the potency. I found it's never
            >safe to routinely give remedies in repetition (like "twice a day" or "three
            >times a day"...it's baloney). Always wait to see what the effect of the
            >remedy is before repeating it!


            certainly true.
            Sheri


            >Best of luck to you,
            >Sati
            >
            >----- Original Message -----
            >From: "HomeoDidact" <hrandco (AT) bezeqint (DOT) net>
            >To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
            >Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:25 AM
            >Subject: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
            >
            >
            >Dear all,
            >
            >Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
            >
            >I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
            >little.
            >
            >I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
            >(without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in C
            >and LM potencies?
            >
            >Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest potencies?
            >(I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
            >low potencies, but is it safe?)
            >
            >Many thanks for your advice.
            >
            >Rafy
            >

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

              Thanks for your input, Sheri!
              I realized after I wrote that about giving ANY potency - well, it just
              didn't sit right. Because personally (with where I'm at with homeopathy
              right now), I'd *never* start by giving someone a *very* high potency... I
              remember way too many aggravations "back in the days" when the practitioners
              gave entire phials of 10M's and such, even to children - YIKES...that scares
              me just remembering it. You're absolutely right about the right dose and
              the right potency is what makes a good homeopath a great one! Guess I'm
              just not at that level yet.
              That's why I suggested starting at a low dry dose potency, which I've found
              effective for determining if I've got the right remedy, then I start
              climbing the ladder up the potency scale. I realize (like Dr. R. said),
              some people will aggravate even at a low dose if it's the wrong one, and
              I've aggravated from an Arnica 6c myself before, so it's not a foolproof
              method.

              I know that's why you suggest water dosing (which I've been attempting to
              put to use for years). Problems I'm having with H2O doses: occasionally
              (imh experience) the water potencies will seem to retain their effectiveness
              for a few doses (after several succussions), but then their effect seems to
              'evaporate' - and I don't know where to go from there. That's the thing I
              find most confusing and frustrating about water potencies - it's
              impreciseness. I mean how does one know exactly how strong the remedy is
              after you've pounded the carp out of it for a few days?...you've no idea
              what potency you're at now that you've been succussing and succussing it, so
              it's hard to determine where to go when the effectiveness runs out (for me
              anyway.) I probably just need more experience messing around with them (or
              to go to a really good school, which may happen some day).
              I never noticed in particular that water doses aggravated towards the end
              (but, hey if Dr. H. said so, it's probably true!), but I have noticed that
              tendency every time with dry dose LM's.
              Cheers, and thanks for your guidance :)
              Sati
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Sheri Nakken" <homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net>
              To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
              Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:49 AM
              Subject: Re: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies


              > At 02:22 PM 5/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
              >>Hello Rafy,
              >>If Lachesis is the indicated remedy for you then ANY potency should be
              >>safe.

              >
              > That is certainly NOT true. The wrong dose or potency can cause
              > aggravation
              >
              > Part of individualization is the right dose and the right potency for the
              > person.
              >
              >>When I'm in doubt I just start with a low potency, like a 6c or 12c, to
              >>see
              >>what effect it has. If nothing happens, (or something positive!), then I
              >>go
              >>up slowly. You might try starting with LM's (an LM1), but remember that
              >>LM's tend to aggravate towards the END of their action, so you'll have to
              >>wait it out fully...to be certain you've experienced the full effect.

              >
              > All remedies given in water, as Hahnemann taught, aggravate toward the
              > end.
              >
              >>Give ONE dose, and wait, no matter what the potency. I found it's never
              >>safe to routinely give remedies in repetition (like "twice a day" or
              >>"three
              >>times a day"...it's baloney). Always wait to see what the effect of the
              >>remedy is before repeating it!

              >
              > certainly true.
              > Sheri
              >
              >
              >>Best of luck to you,
              >>Sati
              >>
              >>----- Original Message -----
              >>From: "HomeoDidact" <hrandco (AT) bezeqint (DOT) net>
              >>To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
              >>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:25 AM
              >>Subject: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
              >>
              >>
              >>Dear all,
              >>
              >>Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
              >>
              >>I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
              >>little.
              >>
              >>I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
              >>(without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in
              >>C
              >>and LM potencies?
              >>
              >>Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest
              >>potencies?
              >>(I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
              >>low potencies, but is it safe?)
              >>
              >>Many thanks for your advice.
              >>
              >>Rafy
              >>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

                At 10:50 AM 5/9/2007 -0700, you wrote:
                >Thanks for your input, Sheri!
                >I realized after I wrote that about giving ANY potency - well, it just
                >didn't sit right. Because personally (with where I'm at with homeopathy
                >right now), I'd *never* start by giving someone a *very* high potency... I
                >remember way too many aggravations "back in the days" when the practitioners
                >gave entire phials of 10M's and such, even to children - YIKES...that scares
                >me just remembering it. You're absolutely right about the right dose and
                >the right potency is what makes a good homeopath a great one! Guess I'm
                >just not at that level yet.


                thanks for recognizing this. It is a sign of an ethical person.

                > That's why I suggested starting at a low dry dose potency, which I've found
                >effective for determining if I've got the right remedy, then I start
                >climbing the ladder up the potency scale. I realize (like Dr. R. said),
                >some people will aggravate even at a low dose if it's the wrong one,


                You won't aggravate from a wrong remedy - you will have accessory symptoms
                - a proving.
                You will only aggravate from the right remedy at the wrong dose and/or
                potency.

                and
                >I've aggravated from an Arnica 6c myself before, so it's not a foolproof
                >method.
                >
                > I know that's why you suggest water dosing (which I've been attempting to
                >put to use for years). Problems I'm having with H2O doses: occasionally
                >(imh experience) the water potencies will seem to retain their effectiveness
                >for a few doses (after several succussions), but then their effect seems to
                >'evaporate' - and I don't know where to go from there. That's the thing I
                >find most confusing and frustrating about water potencies - it's
                >impreciseness.


                Not sure why you would have that experience.
                It is not my experience at all. There is no reason it would 'evaporate'
                unless improper storage.
                I find it much more precise, actually.

                >>I mean how does one know exactly how strong the remedy is

                >after you've pounded the carp out of it for a few days?...you've no idea
                >what potency you're at now that you've been succussing and succussing it, so
                >it's hard to determine where to go when the effectiveness runs out (for me
                >anyway.)


                It is all very methodical. I'll send you more info about how I work with
                patients.
                Dr. Luc's book - Achieving and Maintaining the Simillimum works with all of
                this and helps explain all the possibilities - clarify the aphorisms in the
                Organon.
                Making them come to life.

                >> I probably just need more experience messing around with them (or

                >to go to a really good school, which may happen some day).


                No, no school teaches this, that I know of. Get his book and start working
                with the remedies in that way.

                > I never noticed in particular that water doses aggravated towards the end
                >(but, hey if Dr. H. said so, it's probably true!), but I have noticed that
                >tendency every time with dry dose LM's.


                Wooooo - dry dose LM"s - yikes - would never use those.


                >Cheers, and thanks for your guidance :)


                Sure
                Glad you are open.

                Sheri
                >Sati
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: "Sheri Nakken" <homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net>
                >To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
                >Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:49 AM
                >Subject: Re: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                >
                >
                >> At 02:22 PM 5/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
                >>>Hello Rafy,
                >>>If Lachesis is the indicated remedy for you then ANY potency should be
                >>>safe.

                >>
                >> That is certainly NOT true. The wrong dose or potency can cause
                >> aggravation
                >>
                >> Part of individualization is the right dose and the right potency for the
                >> person.
                >>
                >>>When I'm in doubt I just start with a low potency, like a 6c or 12c, to
                >>>see
                >>>what effect it has. If nothing happens, (or something positive!), then I
                >>>go
                >>>up slowly. You might try starting with LM's (an LM1), but remember that
                >>>LM's tend to aggravate towards the END of their action, so you'll have to
                >>>wait it out fully...to be certain you've experienced the full effect.

                >>
                >> All remedies given in water, as Hahnemann taught, aggravate toward the
                >> end.
                >>
                >>>Give ONE dose, and wait, no matter what the potency. I found it's never
                >>>safe to routinely give remedies in repetition (like "twice a day" or
                >>>"three
                >>>times a day"...it's baloney). Always wait to see what the effect of the
                >>>remedy is before repeating it!

                >>
                >> certainly true.
                >> Sheri
                >>
                >>
                >>>Best of luck to you,
                >>>Sati
                >>>
                >>>----- Original Message -----
                >>>From: "HomeoDidact" <hrandco (AT) bezeqint (DOT) net>
                >>>To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
                >>>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:25 AM
                >>>Subject: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>Dear all,
                >>>
                >>>Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
                >>>
                >>>I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
                >>>little.
                >>>
                >>>I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
                >>>(without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in
                >>>C
                >>>and LM potencies?
                >>>
                >>>Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest
                >>>potencies?
                >>>(I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
                >>>low potencies, but is it safe?)
                >>>
                >>>Many thanks for your advice.
                >>>
                >>>Rafy
                >>>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

                  At 10:50 AM 5/9/2007 -0700, you wrote:
                  >Thanks for your input, Sheri!
                  >I realized after I wrote that about giving ANY potency - well, it just
                  >didn't sit right. Because personally (with where I'm at with homeopathy
                  >right now), I'd *never* start by giving someone a *very* high potency... I
                  >remember way too many aggravations "back in the days" when the practitioners
                  >gave entire phials of 10M's and such, even to children - YIKES...that scares
                  >me just remembering it. You're absolutely right about the right dose and
                  >the right potency is what makes a good homeopath a great one! Guess I'm
                  >just not at that level yet.


                  thanks for recognizing this. It is a sign of an ethical person.

                  > That's why I suggested starting at a low dry dose potency, which I've found
                  >effective for determining if I've got the right remedy, then I start
                  >climbing the ladder up the potency scale. I realize (like Dr. R. said),
                  >some people will aggravate even at a low dose if it's the wrong one,


                  You won't aggravate from a wrong remedy - you will have accessory symptoms
                  - a proving.
                  You will only aggravate from the right remedy at the wrong dose and/or
                  potency.

                  and
                  >I've aggravated from an Arnica 6c myself before, so it's not a foolproof
                  >method.
                  >
                  > I know that's why you suggest water dosing (which I've been attempting to
                  >put to use for years). Problems I'm having with H2O doses: occasionally
                  >(imh experience) the water potencies will seem to retain their effectiveness
                  >for a few doses (after several succussions), but then their effect seems to
                  >'evaporate' - and I don't know where to go from there. That's the thing I
                  >find most confusing and frustrating about water potencies - it's
                  >impreciseness.


                  Not sure why you would have that experience.
                  It is not my experience at all. There is no reason it would 'evaporate'
                  unless improper storage.
                  I find it much more precise, actually.

                  >>I mean how does one know exactly how strong the remedy is

                  >after you've pounded the carp out of it for a few days?...you've no idea
                  >what potency you're at now that you've been succussing and succussing it, so
                  >it's hard to determine where to go when the effectiveness runs out (for me
                  >anyway.)


                  It is all very methodical. I'll send you more info about how I work with
                  patients.
                  Dr. Luc's book - Achieving and Maintaining the Simillimum works with all of
                  this and helps explain all the possibilities - clarify the aphorisms in the
                  Organon.
                  Making them come to life.

                  >> I probably just need more experience messing around with them (or

                  >to go to a really good school, which may happen some day).


                  No, no school teaches this, that I know of. Get his book and start working
                  with the remedies in that way.

                  > I never noticed in particular that water doses aggravated towards the end
                  >(but, hey if Dr. H. said so, it's probably true!), but I have noticed that
                  >tendency every time with dry dose LM's.


                  Wooooo - dry dose LM"s - yikes - would never use those.


                  >Cheers, and thanks for your guidance :)


                  Sure
                  Glad you are open.

                  Sheri
                  >Sati
                  >----- Original Message -----
                  >From: "Sheri Nakken" <homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net>
                  >To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
                  >Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:49 AM
                  >Subject: Re: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                  >
                  >
                  >> At 02:22 PM 5/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
                  >>>Hello Rafy,
                  >>>If Lachesis is the indicated remedy for you then ANY potency should be
                  >>>safe.

                  >>
                  >> That is certainly NOT true. The wrong dose or potency can cause
                  >> aggravation
                  >>
                  >> Part of individualization is the right dose and the right potency for the
                  >> person.
                  >>
                  >>>When I'm in doubt I just start with a low potency, like a 6c or 12c, to
                  >>>see
                  >>>what effect it has. If nothing happens, (or something positive!), then I
                  >>>go
                  >>>up slowly. You might try starting with LM's (an LM1), but remember that
                  >>>LM's tend to aggravate towards the END of their action, so you'll have to
                  >>>wait it out fully...to be certain you've experienced the full effect.

                  >>
                  >> All remedies given in water, as Hahnemann taught, aggravate toward the
                  >> end.
                  >>
                  >>>Give ONE dose, and wait, no matter what the potency. I found it's never
                  >>>safe to routinely give remedies in repetition (like "twice a day" or
                  >>>"three
                  >>>times a day"...it's baloney). Always wait to see what the effect of the
                  >>>remedy is before repeating it!

                  >>
                  >> certainly true.
                  >> Sheri
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>>Best of luck to you,
                  >>>Sati
                  >>>
                  >>>----- Original Message -----
                  >>>From: "HomeoDidact" <hrandco (AT) bezeqint (DOT) net>
                  >>>To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
                  >>>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:25 AM
                  >>>Subject: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>Dear all,
                  >>>
                  >>>Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
                  >>>
                  >>>I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use is
                  >>>little.
                  >>>
                  >>>I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
                  >>>(without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can use,in
                  >>>C
                  >>>and LM potencies?
                  >>>
                  >>>Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest
                  >>>potencies?
                  >>>(I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily in
                  >>>low potencies, but is it safe?)
                  >>>
                  >>>Many thanks for your advice.
                  >>>
                  >>>Rafy
                  >>>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

                    Hi Sati,
                    FWIW, I was taught that succussion will not raise the potency even by
                    as much as a single step of dilution--but the *slight* consecutive
                    raises keep the action "fresh". Re the action ceasing? I don't know,
                    but *perhaps* it's simply that the remedy is only partially suitable?
                    Or, have you tried at that point raising the potency by another
                    "step"--empty most of the solution, re-fill (2/3) and begin succussing
                    again? Maybe you've just exhausted the potency range at that point?
                    (Sheri--does that sound plausible to you?)
                    Shannon

                    On May 9, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Sati wrote:

                    > Thanks for your input, Sheri!
                    > I realized after I wrote that about giving ANY potency - well, it just
                    > didn't sit right. Because personally (with where I'm at with
                    > homeopathy right now), I'd *never* start by giving someone a *very*
                    > high potency... I remember way too many aggravations "back in the
                    > days" when the practitioners gave entire phials of 10M's and such,
                    > even to children - YIKES...that scares me just remembering it. You're
                    > absolutely right about the right dose and the right potency is what
                    > makes a good homeopath a great one! Guess I'm just not at that level
                    > yet.
                    > That's why I suggested starting at a low dry dose potency, which I've
                    > found effective for determining if I've got the right remedy, then I
                    > start climbing the ladder up the potency scale. I realize (like Dr.
                    > R. said), some people will aggravate even at a low dose if it's the
                    > wrong one, and I've aggravated from an Arnica 6c myself before, so
                    > it's not a foolproof method.
                    >
                    > I know that's why you suggest water dosing (which I've been attempting
                    > to put to use for years). Problems I'm having with H2O doses:
                    > occasionally (imh experience) the water potencies will seem to retain
                    > their effectiveness for a few doses (after several succussions), but
                    > then their effect seems to 'evaporate' - and I don't know where to go
                    > from there. That's the thing I find most confusing and frustrating
                    > about water potencies - it's impreciseness. I mean how does one know
                    > exactly how strong the remedy is after you've pounded the carp out of
                    > it for a few days?...you've no idea what potency you're at now that
                    > you've been succussing and succussing it, so it's hard to determine
                    > where to go when the effectiveness runs out (for me anyway.) I
                    > probably just need more experience messing around with them (or to go
                    > to a really good school, which may happen some day).
                    > I never noticed in particular that water doses aggravated towards
                    > the end (but, hey if Dr. H. said so, it's probably true!), but I have
                    > noticed that tendency every time with dry dose LM's.
                    > Cheers, and thanks for your guidance :)
                    > Sati
                    > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Nakken"
                    > <homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net>
                    > To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:49 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                    >
                    >
                    >> At 02:22 PM 5/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
                    >>> Hello Rafy,
                    >>> If Lachesis is the indicated remedy for you then ANY potency should
                    >>> be safe.

                    >>
                    >> That is certainly NOT true. The wrong dose or potency can cause
                    >> aggravation
                    >>
                    >> Part of individualization is the right dose and the right potency for
                    >> the
                    >> person.
                    >>
                    >>> When I'm in doubt I just start with a low potency, like a 6c or 12c,
                    >>> to see
                    >>> what effect it has. If nothing happens, (or something positive!),
                    >>> then I go
                    >>> up slowly. You might try starting with LM's (an LM1), but remember
                    >>> that
                    >>> LM's tend to aggravate towards the END of their action, so you'll
                    >>> have to
                    >>> wait it out fully...to be certain you've experienced the full effect.

                    >>
                    >> All remedies given in water, as Hahnemann taught, aggravate toward
                    >> the end.
                    >>
                    >>> Give ONE dose, and wait, no matter what the potency. I found it's
                    >>> never
                    >>> safe to routinely give remedies in repetition (like "twice a day" or
                    >>> "three
                    >>> times a day"...it's baloney). Always wait to see what the effect of
                    >>> the
                    >>> remedy is before repeating it!

                    >>
                    >> certainly true.
                    >> Sheri
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>> Best of luck to you,
                    >>> Sati
                    >>>
                    >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "HomeoDidact"
                    >>> <hrandco (AT) bezeqint (DOT) net>
                    >>> To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
                    >>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:25 AM
                    >>> Subject: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Dear all,
                    >>>
                    >>> Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
                    >>>
                    >>> I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its
                    >>> use is
                    >>> little.
                    >>>
                    >>> I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
                    >>> (without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can
                    >>> use,in C
                    >>> and LM potencies?
                    >>>
                    >>> Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest
                    >>> potencies?
                    >>> (I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice
                    >>> daily in
                    >>> low potencies, but is it safe?)
                    >>>
                    >>> Many thanks for your advice.
                    >>>
                    >>> Rafy
                    >>>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

                      Hi Shannon,
                      This helps (knowing it doesn't raise the dilution much), now that you
                      mention it I seem to remember hearing that too. It's really strange why all
                      my water remedies stop acting when they were doing great - sometimes
                      miraculous work, to start with! I have tried what you suggest and will keep
                      on working with them.
                      Has anyone else noticed that some people are not as susceptible to the
                      action of water potencies (compared with dry doses)?
                      Thanks again,
                      Sati
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Robert & Shannon Nelson" <shannonnelson (AT) tds (DOT) net>
                      To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:06 PM
                      Subject: Re: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies


                      > Hi Sati,
                      > FWIW, I was taught that succussion will not raise the potency even by as
                      > much as a single step of dilution--but the *slight* consecutive raises
                      > keep the action "fresh". Re the action ceasing? I don't know, but
                      > *perhaps* it's simply that the remedy is only partially suitable? Or,
                      > have you tried at that point raising the potency by another "step"--empty
                      > most of the solution, re-fill (2/3) and begin succussing again? Maybe
                      > you've just exhausted the potency range at that point? (Sheri--does that
                      > sound plausible to you?)
                      > Shannon
                      >
                      > On May 9, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Sati wrote:
                      >
                      >> Thanks for your input, Sheri!
                      >> I realized after I wrote that about giving ANY potency - well, it just
                      >> didn't sit right. Because personally (with where I'm at with homeopathy
                      >> right now), I'd *never* start by giving someone a *very* high potency...
                      >> I remember way too many aggravations "back in the days" when the
                      >> practitioners gave entire phials of 10M's and such, even to children -
                      >> YIKES...that scares me just remembering it. You're absolutely right
                      >> about the right dose and the right potency is what makes a good homeopath
                      >> a great one! Guess I'm just not at that level yet.
                      >> That's why I suggested starting at a low dry dose potency, which I've
                      >> found effective for determining if I've got the right remedy, then I
                      >> start climbing the ladder up the potency scale. I realize (like Dr. R.
                      >> said), some people will aggravate even at a low dose if it's the wrong
                      >> one, and I've aggravated from an Arnica 6c myself before, so it's not a
                      >> foolproof method.
                      >>
                      >> I know that's why you suggest water dosing (which I've been attempting to
                      >> put to use for years). Problems I'm having with H2O doses: occasionally
                      >> (imh experience) the water potencies will seem to retain their
                      >> effectiveness for a few doses (after several succussions), but then their
                      >> effect seems to 'evaporate' - and I don't know where to go from there.
                      >> That's the thing I find most confusing and frustrating about water
                      >> potencies - it's impreciseness. I mean how does one know exactly how
                      >> strong the remedy is after you've pounded the carp out of it for a few
                      >> days?...you've no idea what potency you're at now that you've been
                      >> succussing and succussing it, so it's hard to determine where to go when
                      >> the effectiveness runs out (for me anyway.) I probably just need more
                      >> experience messing around with them (or to go to a really good school,
                      >> which may happen some day).
                      >> I never noticed in particular that water doses aggravated towards the
                      >> end (but, hey if Dr. H. said so, it's probably true!), but I have noticed
                      >> that tendency every time with dry dose LM's.
                      >> Cheers, and thanks for your guidance :)
                      >> Sati
                      >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Nakken"
                      >> <homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net>
                      >> To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
                      >> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:49 AM
                      >> Subject: Re: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>> At 02:22 PM 5/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
                      >>>> Hello Rafy,
                      >>>> If Lachesis is the indicated remedy for you then ANY potency should be
                      >>>> safe.
                      >>>
                      >>> That is certainly NOT true. The wrong dose or potency can cause
                      >>> aggravation
                      >>>
                      >>> Part of individualization is the right dose and the right potency for
                      >>> the
                      >>> person.
                      >>>
                      >>>> When I'm in doubt I just start with a low potency, like a 6c or 12c, to
                      >>>> see
                      >>>> what effect it has. If nothing happens, (or something positive!), then
                      >>>> I go
                      >>>> up slowly. You might try starting with LM's (an LM1), but remember
                      >>>> that
                      >>>> LM's tend to aggravate towards the END of their action, so you'll have
                      >>>> to
                      >>>> wait it out fully...to be certain you've experienced the full effect.
                      >>>
                      >>> All remedies given in water, as Hahnemann taught, aggravate toward the
                      >>> end.
                      >>>
                      >>>> Give ONE dose, and wait, no matter what the potency. I found it's
                      >>>> never
                      >>>> safe to routinely give remedies in repetition (like "twice a day" or
                      >>>> "three
                      >>>> times a day"...it's baloney). Always wait to see what the effect of
                      >>>> the
                      >>>> remedy is before repeating it!
                      >>>
                      >>> certainly true.
                      >>> Sheri
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>> Best of luck to you,
                      >>>> Sati
                      >>>>
                      >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "HomeoDidact" <hrandco (AT) bezeqint (DOT) net>
                      >>>> To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
                      >>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:25 AM
                      >>>> Subject: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Dear all,
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Kent warned us about the danger of proving Lachesis while using it.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> I was always reluctant to use Lachesis, and my experience with its use
                      >>>> is
                      >>>> little.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> I am going to use it soon, and I wonder what is the lowest, yet safe
                      >>>> (without the danger of proving it) potency of Lachesis that one can
                      >>>> use,in C
                      >>>> and LM potencies?
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Also, what can be a reasonable safe repetition with these lowest
                      >>>> potencies?
                      >>>> (I saw Jouanny and other French Homeopaths do give it even twice daily
                      >>>> in
                      >>>> low potencies, but is it safe?)
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Many thanks for your advice.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Rafy
                      >>>>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies

                        On May 9, 2007, at 5:52 PM, Sati wrote:

                        > Hi Shannon,
                        > This helps (knowing it doesn't raise the dilution much), now that you
                        > mention it I seem to remember hearing that too. It's really strange
                        > why all my water remedies stop acting when they were doing great -
                        > sometimes miraculous work, to start with! I have tried what you
                        > suggest and will keep on working with them.


                        Did you also try going back to dry dose? Because--

                        > Has anyone else noticed that some people are not as susceptible to the
                        > action of water potencies (compared with dry doses)?


                        I have only a few examples to draw on, so don't know what the factors
                        might be, but twice on myself I found water dose ineffective (these
                        were both in cases of trauma, so I knew just what action I was
                        expecting), but the same remedy and potency in dry dose worked as
                        expected. I *might* have begun in those cases with a dry dose (for
                        convenience), and wonder whether that might have compromised the action
                        of the water doses??? But at other times I've done the same thing and
                        had no problem--the water doses worked fine in follow-up to a dry dose.
                        (Anyone have opinions about whether or not beginning with dry is apt
                        to make subsequent wet doses less effective?)
                        Shannon

                        > Thanks again,
                        > Sati
                        > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert & Shannon Nelson"
                        > <shannonnelson (AT) tds (DOT) net>
                        > To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:06 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [H] LACHESIS safety and potencies
                        >
                        >
                        >> Hi Sati,
                        >> FWIW, I was t


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          LACHESIS safety and potencies

                          dear homeolist,

                          my experience shows that 6x and even 6c of remedies do a proving on sensitive subjects. this was true for all cases (and for all remedies tested). it is for this reason I was stopped using a LM potency as LM1 used to prove strongly.

                          I found the C potencies much better that way and solely use C potencies these days.

                          my personal recommendation, for those who care to hear is to stick to a single dose C approach. the best posology (clinical proven effective) till date is probably the one used by dr prafull vijayakar. you all may study it with benefit. it is much deeper and more effective posology than it appears.

                          I recommend the lowest safe potency (general guideline for all patients. for any case. for any remedy) is 30C. single dose. given in a single dose at one time. (dry on in some water). do not repeat. if it is perfect similia - it should last for at least a 15 days - if not a month or more. progress of case seen as per hering's laws as best explained by dr vijayakar.

                          for lachesis I will recommend a 30C as the minimum.

                          some texts (see rehman encyclo. for details) mention any potency of lach below 8x to be toxic - this is what I can remember.

                          take care

                          dr manish
                          jivaka research institute

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: LACHESIS safety and potencies/Now H2O potencies

                            Sati asked:
                            >> Has anyone else noticed that some people are not as susceptible to the
                            >> action of water potencies (compared with dry doses)?


                            Shannon replied:
                            >
                            > I have only a few examples to draw on, so don't know what the factors
                            > might be, but twice on myself I found water dose ineffective (these were
                            > both in cases of trauma, so I knew just what action I was expecting), but
                            > the same remedy and potency in dry dose worked as expected. I *might*
                            > have begun in those cases with a dry dose (for convenience), and wonder
                            > whether that might have compromised the action of the water doses??? But
                            > at other times I've done the same thing and had no problem--the water
                            > doses worked fine in follow-up to a dry dose. (Anyone have opinions about
                            > whether or not beginning with dry is apt to make subsequent wet doses less
                            > effective?)
                            > Shannon


                            Yes, this still boggles my mind. Sometimes water does work, sometimes not,
                            sometimes ALL the time with SOME people, sometimes not at all with others.
                            Huh? I will probably stick with mostly dry dosing and then when I reach
                            certain levels (like Sheri suggested, at the 200c level) start succusing in
                            water. I've done this before, however, and never had effective cures when
                            the remedy (given dry) was acting miraculously. I don't know how many
                            bottles of unused, ineffective water potency remedies I've had to toss
                            away....it makes the whole process extremely frustrating.
                            Would love to hear others experience with wet/dry dosing.
                            Thanks!
                            Sati
                            PS: Thanks, Sheri, I haven't had time to get back to you, but appreciate all
                            your help with this!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dr. Rozencwajg,
                              Could you please elaborate on your experience with Lachesis. What symptoms did you experience? Have they all gone away? How did you antidote it?
                              Thank you!

                              Originally posted by Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD,NMD. View Post
                              It is a question of individual sensitivity...........Lachesis is the ONLY
                              remedy I ever proved, many years ago, while testing the effects of a combo,
                              in 6C.........there is not a single other remedy, in any potency, that I
                              ever reacted to, and I did take many as I wanted to understand fully some of
                              the remedies........and what better way than to do a proving, right???

                              Never had any proving reaction except for Lachesis, but that is only me.....
                              ....I intimately knew all the throat symptoms.......



                              Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.

                              "The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".
                              Love is the Answer.

                              Comment

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