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  • Pigion pox

    Hello to every one!
    I am very new to this forum as well as homio!
    For the last 14years I am practicing allopathic Veterinary Medicine. But in mind I have some sort of dissatisfaction .
    So now I started thining Homiopathically.I hope this will give me the full professonal satisfaction.
    Here is my first question to the forum members.
    After reading some books and web I came to a conclusion that for Pigion pox as prophylaxis Variolinum-30 or 200 can be given 2 doses at 7 days interwel. Actually pox started attacking the young one from 25days age . So I gave the 200 at 20th day and 27th day, insted pox occured on 30th day. But one thing I am sure, the nature is so mild. Thatis lesions seen in two or three spots only and no spreds. Previously if pox attacks the lesions cover maximum all over the body including head .
    Variolinum as prophylaxis for pigion pox is correct or I have change the remedy?
    is my question.
    Thank u in advance!
    NOTE: in allopathy if vacction given the disease will not come. in homio if the nosode or remedy given as prophylaxis will prevent the disease or the disease will be of mild in nature? (2nd question)
    kasthuri

  • #2
    1) Namaste Kasthuri,

    I just stumbled over your post when looking out for replies to an earlier post of mine.

    Welcome onboard and fate be blessed for your interest and inclination to homoeopathy.

    It has indeed great potential for longlasting healing of any creature ( even for plants it is being used ) !

    I had made some recommendations to book sources in a previous post of mine on a cat case, which you may be interested to read for that purpose, so I do not have to type the same again.
    One can click on the Icon above a forum poster's message, i.e. mine in this case, to see the "profile", and from there you can click "view recent posts" by that person, in chronological order. Or one can do a search for the whole board messages, and besides keyword you also have the option to type a member's registration number, and you will be shown all discussions which that one has so far contributed to. I estimate that at least three of mine will contain valuable information for you,

    - i.e. the long cat post for the most excellent vet books in homoeopathy

    - one of the pregnancy related posts from Friday with an Internet address of a very experienced European vet where you can study a good number of his treatments online by reading the cases on his forum/board, which I myself enjoyed very much and therefore recommend highly !
    ( - He also has some cases here on the HHBB, search past year archives for these, though his more recent on his own homepage are even better, more detailed etc., I found. )

    ( -> Only one has to warn you a bit, I feel: Do NOT expect him to teach and explain for you, or any other reader; he is a nice guy, as his efforts reveal, but can get very unpatient when he feels someone is stealing his valuable time, of which he never has enough to attend to all those in need. But as long as you stay a silent reader, read and make notes - all for free - you are completely safe; there also is a members' section for those who have made sufficient donations to his charitable project, where he makes educational resources available, so I have myself marked this option for the future. )

    - and my last long post from this morning included a case of healing an eagle from fatal poisoning, which I found most impressive, and you may as well.

    [ 20. February 2003, 10:56: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

    Comment


    • #3
      2) ...Now to your question itself.

      Regarding ____prophylaxis____, yes that is the idea, as you stated.

      Actually what ( classical ) homoeopathy developed was ( only ) a strategy for preventing imminently threatening diseases, i.e. in epidemics. There you try to find out the most likely fitting remedy and administer it short before the person/animal is going to probably get into contact with the pathogenic agents of that epidemic. And that has, long time ago, PROVEN to be effective.

      You can read the original writing on this, by Samuel Hahnemann, our founder and forever "Maha-guru", even online for free. For this go to

      --> "www.minutus.org"
      -> library
      -> "Lesser writings of S.H."
      -> ____"Cure and prevention of the Asiatic Cholera" (1831)____,

      which you will find interesting for your studies.

      The same Site has also other interesting resources which you may want to explore over time. The one veterinary text that I remember there is contained in the "Lesser Writings" of Boenninghausen, who was personal master student and friend to Dr Hahnemann, and administrator of agricultural estates before himself discovering homoeopathy, so he applied it to farm animals and reports a number of his cases there, though not in great detail.

      ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- .....

      Further ____sources____ that just come to my mind:

      - The UK branch of online bookseller amazon has the greatest variety of homoeo-vet books ( like specialized books on various species and groups of domestic animals );

      - another good source for a large variety of homoeo-books, incl. some vet titles, is "www.minimum.com"
      ( -> Don Hamilton's second book should be useful at an advanced staged in your future ).

      - a good search-machine like "googles" can lead you to the most charming source that there probably is in the world:
      Some dedicated animal lovers run the "Welsh hedgehog hospital" ( UK ), where also some detailed experiences with homoeopathic treatment are described. Bless these people !

      ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- ..... ----- .....

      ... Back to your question.

      ____Vaccination____
      as such, as an analogy to modern allopathic practice, is clearly NOT a concept of ( classical ) homoeopathy. I.e. giving remedies or nosodes at the beginning of life for long-term immunization.
      However a number of people have experimented with this, have been and are practising it. Others oppose it, sometimes outspokenly. Some have actually killed or otherwise tortured animals, e.g. dog puppies, by applying mega-doses of high potency homoeo-rem.es for such purposes; others at least are sincere, modest and careful.

      You can for example find some discussions on this through the homoeo-mailing list "minutus", run by Yahoo, where you can register for free and then search the archives with key words.
      There are a number of good vets on the list;
      it has to be noted, however, that a number of list members ( membership is not screened ) do NOT practise ( exclusively ) homoeopathy, at least not in its original, classical sense, which I claim on good grounds is the only one that deserves the name "H.", and that shows in the posts sometimes and gives rise to quarrels; one has to know that background to place all that right. The group description stated clearly that it was exclusively for Class. Hom., but the moderator has not enough time to check everyone and everything, so those and that stuff does creep in. - You would have to see for yourself.

      [ 10. February 2003, 18:23: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

      Comment


      • #4
        3) ... regarding your ____prophylaxis experiment____:

        I am not a vet myself, and cannot report from own experience;
        if you say they had mild symptoms after a dose of C 200 potency, I would not rule out it was a proving reaction, but would not claim for sure either. It looks quite high to begin with, to my mind: because what you traditionally use for purposeful provings, to explore the remedy, is a C 30 potency, i.e. clearly less strong.
        There may be a practice of giving prophylactic remedies where you start with a lower potency, wait a bit, and then proceed to a higher one, to make it less "shocking" for the animal. One would have to look at a variety of literature and practitioners' experiences here.

        If you are sure that there were several symptom free days between remedy and "mild disease", that would speak against a proving; so then it may have worked; if they still caught the disease, it may point to the prophylaxix not being strong enough, i.e. it may, if that interpretation is right, be better to give, say C 30, C 200, and C >200 as a sequence with a few days in between. "Over 200" need not mean jumping to 1000 straight away, that is a habit that many develop in treatment, but I find it often far too high and hence brutal, some step in between may be wiser.
        As I said I have no direct experience here, so I would observe, search for a variety of experience ( and how sound their observations sound to you ), and do a little systematic experimenting, plus keeping records of them.
        Variolanum looks to make sense; if there is another remedy or pox-disease nosode I could not say. You could make ( or have made by a homoeo-pharmacy ) one yourself from a bit of carefully extracted tissue of an actually diseased, never-prophylacted animal, containing the pathogenic agents, or from a number of tissue samples of several individuals. That would then be a real "pigeon pox nosode" of its own.

        [ 10. February 2003, 18:23: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

        Comment


        • #5
          4) P.S.: If I don't sound too pedantic - your abbrevation is a bit funny; "homoeopathy" is from a German word from a latin language version of a newly created term in which two ancient greek ( the "Sanskrit of Europe" ) words were fused.
          They have "homoios/-e/on" for "similar"; in latin that becomes "homoeo-", in German "Homöo-", in English "homoeo-" again; it was the somewhat tasteless Americans with their urge for pragmatic simplification who made "homeo-" from that; which is a mutilation because there does not exist any greek word "homeo-" or "homio-", so if one asks "what does this word mean?", the answer would have to be "nothing any more, because they have mutilated it beyond recognition, ignorant ...s".
          - That is a linguistic fact, I cannot help it, and since I have studied these things it annoys me every time; yes, it also means that the name of this board and side is linguistically wrong: don't blame me when I point that out.

          So the most linguistically correct version that one could imagine is "homoiopathic art";
          "homoeopathy", the traditional British spelling, also still widely used in India, would be second best.

          'Hope you do not feel lectured too much. -

          [ 10. February 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

          Comment


          • #6
            5) ...'Think that was enough for a day. I hope it proves useful for you what I have written.

            Do you actually formally study vet.-homoeopathy in India now, or just collect information and start trying treatments ?

            In any case, good look and good progress to you.

            Kind regards from a zoo-maniac,
            Panthera

            [ 10. February 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

            Comment


            • #7
              Really I am very happy about your long and clear reply. I did not expect this much effort from a member. Once again thank u very much for the time & pain taken for me.
              Actually I am collecting material for my regular use. I hope with the pleasing of people like u , i will achive my goal.
              I started going trough the web site as u mentioned.
              kasthuri

              Comment


              • #8
                6) Right.
                Little supplement: the web site with those terrific vet cases to read online I mentioned in my
                -->> post no. 21) on the pregnancy discussion in "parenting" section.

                'See you another day,
                Panthera

                [ 13. February 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dear Panthera,
                  I wish to present the case little more detail.
                  Some interesting facts about pigeon:
                  1) To come out of nest ------30days
                  2) Change of voice ------40days
                  3) First wing feather falling------40-50days
                  4) Complete wing feather---------8month
                  5) First egg lay --------6-8month
                  pigeon pox affected:

                  1) To come out of nest -----30days
                  2) Change of voice -----3months (time taken for complete cure)
                  3) First wing feather falling----after 3 month (after cure)
                  4) Complete wing feather-------proportionately delayed for 3 months
                  5) First egg lay ------3months delayed
                  So it is clear that after pox attack will affect the performance.
                  Pox symptoms:
                  1) Very dull
                  2) Lesions start around cloacae (anus) or head
                  3) Lesions spread to legs and body
                  4) By seeing, a new person can easily identify pox affected bird
                  5) The lesion persists for around 3 months
                  6) Mortality (death) very less (i.e.) 1 in 50 or 100
                  7) Recovery common but over all performance affected as said above.
                  Variolinum-200 Given birds:
                  Total number given—15
                  Affected with mild lesion—10(all are fancies)
                  Unaffected-------------------5(all are roamers)
                  Except one or two lesion around cloacae or near beak no more spread
                  No other routine growth hindrance
                  No other performance reduction.
                  But now I advised the owner to give Variolinum-30 for coming batch as prophylaxis. I will preset the results to the forum after my study.
                  (Note: the owner who is having nearly 200 pigeons much happy out the result given by vario. After 2years this is the first stock grows normally. I hope he will be much more
                  happy after using at 30th potency.)
                  see u soon!
                  kasthuri

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    One more successful experience in treating Pigeon pox
                    In the same flock last month there were aout 50 pox affected birds. I selected 5 of them and treated with the following remedy
                    Pulsatila.200+Thuja.200+Nat sulph.200--- 3 times a day for 3 days.
                    Dose- 2drops of above mixture in 5ml pure water and 10drops of this mixture as a dose.
                    Treatment given on 22nd, 23rd, & 24/1/03
                    From 25th onwards the lesions started regressing, on 10-2-03 there were no pox lesions.
                    Now a new person can not identify the recovered bird, all the treated birds are that much hale and healthy, and regain all the vitality.
                    Now all other affected birds are under treatment.
                    Soon after complete recovery I will post the result to the forum.
                    Mixing of remedy is not recommended in Homeopathy.
                    But it gives practically positive result .I invite more comments on this aspect.
                    kasthuri

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why is anyone intentionally breeding pigeons? There are horribly cruel methods employed in the US to kill them so I don't understand. Is this just for experimental purposes?
                      Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        7) Kasthuri-ji,

                        I saw your latest posts today, and am still "with you" and interested. Just I have to attend to some other cases ( animal and human ) and topics, here and elsewhere, some of which look more pressing than this discussion, which is of more general nature. But when I have my head free then, I shall sure come back here with full attention.
                        I also had a look into the Vet dictionary for some info on the classification of the "poxes", on which I shall write next time.

                        Until then,
                        Namasteji, Panthera

                        // GPM: I agree with you that very ugly things are connected with pigeon as well as many other sorts of animal breeding.
                        My continuing interest in this question is however a more general one: You have closely related pox diseases ( even by virus relationship ) in many other birds, wild and domestic, including chicken, that at least are kept for food, and not always in a cruel way ( I used to live in the tropics for a while, and had an encountere with quite vital chicken every morning in the bathroom of the local couple in whose house I used to live then, which served in double-function as a chicken stable as well - during the day they could run free - )
                        so that sort of creature is what I have in mind here and now, and what benefit THE ART can provide for them, that were really charming ones ...

                        Regards, Panthera

                        [ 13. February 2003, 16:30: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Squirrels have a viral pox. One rehabber is using Echinacea.....the story available at:

                          http://www.squirrel-rehab.org/rehabinfo/fibroma.shtml

                          Sorry, but I fail to understand how any animal can possibly end up on a dinner plate without cruelty.
                          Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            8) Greetings, both of you.

                            I am still with you, in my thoughts.

                            Just it happens that current questions like those of fertility on the one, and dogs with tumours/ca on the other hand keep me busy.

                            // > GPM:

                            What a sight is that site of yours !
                            I only had a glance so far, but how charming it is: one look at the welcoming picture makes the day your friend, doesn't it ?
                            Thanks for this addition !

                            Your "ethics issue" troubled me a bit, I mean I kept wondering on my weekend hikes what, when, how much, if at all I should answer to that; it looks like one would open a very large can there...
                            BTW: These pox diseases can affect pet and wild birds as well, so a homoeopathic discussion seems worth in any case.

                            // > Kasthuri:
                            I still have my notes on bird pox types in store.

                            And an addition for you:

                            On Saturday I checked some facts on the excellent site

                            www.drpitcairn.com

                            for the lady with the tumour-afflicted dog.

                            In his "Recommended books" section he included

                            Dorothy Shepherd:
                            "Homeopathy in Epidemic diseases"

                            ( see e.g. details on the big online bookseller's site ),
                            which also includes a chapter on "prophylaxis",
                            and lists "nosodes" in its index.
                            Since the doctor who designed this site made a very good impression on me ( I mentioned him in some of my previous posts which I already brought to your notice ) , it may seem worth having a look at that book.

                            // > And for both of you, perhaps:

                            Chapman, Beryl M.:
                            "Homoeopathic treatment for birds"

                            I spotted this today by so-called "accident", also at the online b.s.'s site.
                            I don't know it yet, but it looked interesting; one enthusiastic reviewer; apparently the author has been working in a wild bird rescue centre, so it is dealing with those species, which makes it highly interesting to me, and anyway the same principles apply in all fields of homoeopathy, to all creatures.

                            > GPM:
                            Do you know this book ? I recall you had some experience with birds-in-need as well, had you not ?

                            Kind Regards,
                            Panthera

                            [ 24. February 2003, 13:02: Message edited by: panthera-non-onca ]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello! Panthera
                              It is fine to see your interest on this subject (pox viral disease).

                              First my answer to gpm:
                              Yes many people are keeping pigeons for the shake of pleasure.
                              They used to give good care like pet animal. Daily the owner him self feed the birds & keep the stable clean. By the way they will get relaxed form their routine worldly worries. If they get more young ones beyond their capacity to keep, they will sell them or some time give it free of cost to another interested person.
                              Some people rear racing pigeon. Some have fancy type. Cruel killing of pigeons is not practiced in my area. All the birds are living their full happy life as other pets. So in the way of helping their health I tried much allopathic medicine for their ailments, and when had failure I resorted to Homeopathy medicine. With my first experiment it self I got good result ( in my opinion). So I posted the matter prematurely with over enthusiasm.
                              Here to Pantera!
                              I am following your words and get more useful information from net. Actually studying (properly) Homeopathy medicine is more difficult then regular medicine (in my opinion). Yes I myself also visited Dr.Pitcairn’s site & keep your advice in mind. Things are going smoothly. I ordered some Indian author books on veterinary homeopathy from B.Jain Publisher – New Delhi. Soon I will try to get other foreign author books.
                              You can also find online homeopathic remedy guide for dogs, cattle, horse and birds from www.vethomopath.com .

                              Still I couldn’t get the forum address only as you said earlier.
                              “one of the pregnancy related posts from Friday with an Internet address of a very experienced European vet where you can study a good number of his treatments online by reading the cases on his forum/board, which I myself enjoyed very much and therefore recommend highly !”
                              Could you provide the net address please!

                              Regarding Pox:
                              When I had a talk with some other fellow having pigeons from a distant place, (nearly 100km away from my place) He said, “We used to give malandrinum 200 as prophylaxis as well as for treatment”.
                              Prophylaxis schedule- 2days consequently (once daily)
                              Treatment _______-3days consequently (once daily)
                              Then I searched for malandrinum in the web and I found the information is true.
                              So I am also thinking of testing malandrinum in some other batch.
                              Variolinum 30 results yet to come.

                              Some other doubts:
                              1) When the remedy is having its working period of say 30 or 60days, what is purpose of repeating like thrice a day for 3 to 5days or once a week?
                              2) This working (given in materia medica) period is for which potency. For example normally 12 or 30 being given in short interval than 200 or higher for the same remedy.
                              I surprised about your patient and dedication in answering the forum with very much detail. I read your discussion in other topics and found very much useful for people like me, the beginners. God may bless you for your dedicated work.
                              I feel the study of homeopathy is a life long process and many of the forum topics are complementary to my study. I will try to keep in touch.
                              If you found anything else interesting and can’t be given through forum, send it through my mail id drjkasthuri@hotmail.com.
                              Kind regards,
                              Kasthuri.

                              “Give the best to the world, you will get the best”
                              kasthuri

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