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Which is more scientific: Allopathy or Homeopathy?

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  • Nancy, you can get to millions if you count right. Or over a sufficiently long time.
    Millions die from cars, too. Millions die every year from the food they eat.

    What is the purpose of this? I never denied that effective medicines could be dangerous, if used wrong, but what has this to do with the discussion? We are discussing the scientific foundations in conventional medicine vs homeopathy.

    Hans
    You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

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    • Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
      Nancy, you can get to millions if you count right. Or over a sufficiently long time.
      Millions die from cars, too. Millions die every year from the food they eat.

      What is the purpose of this? I never denied that effective medicines could be dangerous, if used wrong, but what has this to do with the discussion? We are discussing the scientific foundations in conventional medicine vs homeopathy.

      Hans
      Millions of people dies due to side effects of conmed (conventional medicine) is testimony to the fact that the scientific foundations of conmed is flawed. Apart from others, the biggest reason for deaths is the high lethal doses of drugs. And compared to this we have "law of minimum dose" in homeopathy, so as to make sure people do not die due to overdosing
      http://drnancymalik.wordpress.com/

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      • Originally posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
        Millions of people dies due to side effects of conmed (conventional medicine) is testimony to the fact that the scientific foundations of conmed is flawed.
        This is wrong. You might have the opinion that the moral foundations are flawed, but not the scientific. Science never promised us that medicines can be safe.

        Apart from others, the biggest reason for deaths is the high lethal doses of drugs. And compared to this we have "law of minimum dose" in homeopathy, so as to make sure people do not die due to overdosing
        Conventional meds also follow a rule of minimum dose. Overdosing certainly happens, but as a prescription error.

        Hans
        You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
          This is wrong. You might have the opinion that the moral foundations are flawed, but not the scientific. Science never promised us that medicines can be safe.



          Conventional meds also follow a rule of minimum dose. Overdosing certainly happens, but as a prescription error.

          Hans
          A medicine which is not safe for human consumption is unscientific. The foundations are flawed. No doubt about that. ConMed (Conventional Medicie) should take a leaf out of the system of homeopathy medicine to improve upon.

          Good to know that you appreciated the "law of minimum dose" of homeopathy. I wish conmed accept this law. But the sad truth is conmed does not acknowledge this law. If conmed accept this law of homeopathy, it can save millions of deaths due to side effects of its medicine.

          Law of minimum dose says the smallest possible dose of medicine is administered which is sufficient to stimulate the vitality and evoke a healing response to bring about the necessary curative change in a patient. This ensures there is no overdosing and no addiction.
          http://drnancymalik.wordpress.com/

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          • World Homeopathy Day 10 April

            Greetings to all homeopaths and patients of homeopathy spread across 7 continents - a wonderful "World Homeopathy Day" on 10 April 2011 on account of the 256th birthday (1755) of our master Dr. Friedrich Samuel Hahnemann

            Happy birthday 2011 Dr Hahnemann - Homeopathy World Community

            WHAW - World Homeopathy Awareness Week | Facebook

            https://picasaweb.google.com/Dr.Nanc...athyDay10April

            Video dedicated to Dr. Hahnemann YouTube - Tribute to Dr S. Hahnemann.flv


            TwitterFeed - Homeopathy World Community
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            • Originally posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
              A medicine which is not safe for human consumption is unscientific. The foundations are flawed. No doubt about that. ConMed (Conventional Medicie) should take a leaf out of the system of homeopathy medicine to improve upon.
              It is not reasonable to say that medicine is not safe for human consumption. If consumed in the wrong way, or if the product is adulterated, everything is unsafe t oconsume, even water.

              Good to know that you appreciated the "law of minimum dose" of homeopathy. I wish conmed accept this law. But the sad truth is conmed does not acknowledge this law.
              It does. A responsible practitioner will never prescribe a larger does than necessary to achieve a result.

              If conmed accept this law of homeopathy, it can save millions of deaths due to side effects of its medicine.
              And kill billions because the medicine has no effect.

              Hans
              You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

              Comment


              • Arndt-Schultz Law (1887)



                The law of minimum dose got verified by Arndt-Schultz law. This pharmacological principle was concurrently discovered by two separate researchers, Rudolf Arndt, a homeopath physician and Hugo Schultz (German), a conventional scientist.


                This law states that, "weak stimuli slightly accelerate the vital activity, medium-strong stimuli raise it, strong ones suppress it and very strong ones halt it”.



                In simple words, 'Minimal (minute: below its toxicity threshold) doses (weak stimuli) of a drug stimulate (increases physiological activity), medium doses inhibit or suppress and large doses (strong stimuli) abolish/destroy cellular activity.'


                In other words, substances vary in action depending on whether the concentration is high, medium, or low.
                http://drnancymalik.wordpress.com/

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                • Nice change of subject, Nancy.

                  Yes, the Arndt-Schultz research, althoug now obsolete (after all it was published in 1887, and there has been a bit of water under the bridge since then), did lay the foundation for our understanding of dose dependent reactions.

                  Why some homeopaths like to refer to it is, however, beyond me, since dose dependency is exactly what homeopathy is NOT about.

                  Hans
                  You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • Arndt-Schultz law

                    Schultz published various examples of yeast growth stimulation by using subtoxic concentrations of various poisons such as iodine, bromine, arsenious acid etc.

                    1896: Hueppe, a bacteriologist extended the findings to bacteria

                    1943: Southam and Ehrlich coined the term 'hormesis' to describe this. Hormesis is an adaptive response that is induced by stimulation at low doses and inhibition at high doses. Hormesis ensures homeo-stasis is maintained.

                    1945: Miller et al. confirmed that at low doses penicillin actually stimulated the growth of Staphylococcus.
                    http://drnancymalik.wordpress.com/

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                    • Originally posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
                      Schultz published various examples of yeast growth stimulation by using subtoxic concentrations of various poisons such as iodine, bromine, arsenious acid etc.

                      1896: Hueppe, a bacteriologist extended the findings to bacteria

                      1943: Southam and Ehrlich coined the term 'hormesis' to describe this. Hormesis is an adaptive response that is induced by stimulation at low doses and inhibition at high doses. Hormesis ensures homeo-stasis is maintained.

                      1945: Miller et al. confirmed that at low doses penicillin actually stimulated the growth of Staphylococcus.
                      Yes, and what has this to do with homeopathy? These are ALL about pharmacological doses of substances with known effects.

                      Hans
                      You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                      Comment


                      • Arndt-Schultz law

                        For example Schultz published examples such as very weak concentrations of iodine, bromine, mercuric chloride and arsenic acid will enhance the development of yeast (fungus), moderate dosages of these elements will suspend it and large dosages will kill it.

                        In other words, substances vary in action depending on whether the concentration is high, medium, or low. This is known as ‘bi-phase response’ i.e. every medicine has two action phases that depend upon dosage.

                        Therefore, rather than the effectiveness of a medicine increasing with the increase of the dosage, research has consistently proven that very small dosages of a substance have the opposite result of larger ones. For example, it has been proven that the usual medical dosages of atropine inhibit the parasympathetic system and cause dryness in the pituitaries, while very small dosages cause increased secretions.
                        http://drnancymalik.wordpress.com/

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                        • More about relationship of homeopathy to hormesis at http://www.siomi.it/siomifile/siomi_pdf/BELLE_newsletter.pdf




                          The idea/concept of ‘Arndt-Schultz law’ had first been mentioned by P.A. Paracelsus (1493-1541). He said, “All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." He said, “It depends only on the dose whether a poison is poison or not”.
                          http://drnancymalik.wordpress.com/

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                          • Originally posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
                            For example Schultz published examples such as very weak concentrations of iodine, bromine, mercuric chloride and arsenic acid will enhance the development of yeast (fungus), moderate dosages of these elements will suspend it and large dosages will kill it.

                            In other words, substances vary in action depending on whether the concentration is high, medium, or low. This is known as ‘bi-phase response’ i.e. every medicine has two action phases that depend upon dosage.

                            Therefore, rather than the effectiveness of a medicine increasing with the increase of the dosage, research has consistently proven that very small dosages of a substance have the opposite result of larger ones. For example, it has been proven that the usual medical dosages of atropine inhibit the parasympathetic system and cause dryness in the pituitaries, while very small dosages cause increased secretions.
                            A small modification: Small dosages of some medicines have the opposite effect of large doses.

                            And I ask you again: What has this to do with homeopathy?

                            We are taking about allopathic medicines and allopathic dose dependent effects. The effects encountered, whether stimulating or the opposite, are those used in conventional medicine.

                            AND, of course, we are talking about pharmaceutical amounts, even in the small doses.

                            Hans
                            You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
                              More about relationship of homeopathy to hormesis at http://www.siomi.it/siomifile/siomi_pdf/BELLE_newsletter.pdf




                              The idea/concept of ‘Arndt-Schultz law’ had first been mentioned by P.A. Paracelsus (1493-1541). He said, “All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." He said, “It depends only on the dose whether a poison is poison or not”.
                              Yeah, or as one of my friends once said: "There are no adverse substances, only adverse doses" (He was fond of 'experimenting' with various stimulants).

                              However, we are STILL taking about significant amounts. The majority of homeopathic medicines are diluted beyond any pharmaceutical effects, even those below the Avogadro limit.

                              Have you ever considered the amount of active substance in, say, a 6X remedy? ... That is 1 ppm. That is below the safety limit of even quite strong toxins!

                              Hans
                              You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                              Comment

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