Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Homeopathy & Hormesis?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Homeopathy & Hormesis?

    Hello,

    The term hormesis (see Calabrese et al., 2007 for a detailed consideration of the definition and uses of hormesis) has been most widely used in the toxicology field where investigators use it to describe a biphasic dose response with a low dose stimulation or beneficial effect and a high dose inhibitory or toxic effect. The response of the cell or organism to the low dose of the toxin is considered an adaptive compensatory process following an initial disruption in homeostasis. Thus, a short working definition of hormesis is: Ďa process in which exposure to a low dose of a chemical agent or environmental factor that is damaging at higher doses induces an adaptive beneficial effect on the cell or organismí....Hormesis is a fundamental concept in evolutionary theory. From the beginning through the present time, life on earth has existed in harsh environments in which cells are often exposed to free radicals and toxic substances. To avoid extinction organisms have developed complex mechanisms to cope with the environmental hazards.
    Hormesis Defined

    Previously: Arndt-Schulz rule or Schulz' law :For every substance, small doses stimulate, moderate doses inhibit, large doses kill.
    Arndt-Schulz rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The above is a good & detailed article on "Hormesis" (previously Arndt-Schulz rule or Schulz' law). As such, What is the problem in justifying homeopathic stimulating & beneficial effects due to low doses??
    Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
    Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

  • #2
    If OP quote is not sufficient following quote can help:-

    Hum Exp Toxicol. 2008 Feb;27(2):155-62.

    Hormesis and disease resistance: activation of cellular stress response pathways.
    Mattson MP.

    Laboratory of Neurosciences, National Institute on Aging Intramural Research Program, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA. mattsonm@grc.nia.nih.gov

    The survival of all organisms depends upon their ability to overcome stressful conditions, an ability that involves adaptive changes in cells and molecules. Findings from studies of animal models and human populations suggest that hormesis (beneficial effects of low levels of stress) is an effective means of protecting against many different diseases including diabetes, cardiovascular disease, cancers and neurodegenerative disorders. Such stress resistance mechanisms can be bolstered by diverse environmental factors including exercise, dietary restriction, cognitive stimulation and exposure to low levels of toxins. Some commonly used vitamins and dietary supplements may also induce beneficial stress responses. Several interrelated cellular signaling molecules are involved in the process of hormesis. Examples include the gases oxygen, carbon monoxide and nitric oxide, the neurotransmitter glutamate, the calcium ion and tumor necrosis factor. In each case low levels of these signaling molecules are beneficial and protect against disease, whereas high levels can cause the dysfunction and/or death of cells. The cellular and molecular mechanisms of hormesis are being revealed and include activation of growth factor signaling pathways, protein chaperones, cell survival genes and enzymes called sirtuins. Knowledge of hormesis mechanisms is leading to novel approaches for preventing and treating a range of human diseases.

    Hormesis and disease resistance: activation of cel... [Hum Exp Toxicol. 2008] - PubMed result
    Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
    Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

    Comment


    • #3
      Hormesis is 'allopaty'. The effects from hormesis are chemical effects.

      Hans
      You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
        Hormesis is 'allopaty'. The effects from hormesis are chemical effects.

        Hans
        Knowledge, chemicals, foods, supplements, replacements , traditional healing agents, surgeroy etc. are not the property of allopathy. If encouragenment & support of public money would had given to other systems they could also be able to do so. Allo mean different and is defined as;
        allo-, all-,
        combining forms meaning 'differing from the normal, reversal, or referring to another': allopathy, allergic.
        Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.
        So whatever different from normal & if found by allopathy, can be taken as its property. Moreover, chemicals are there in lower potencies(now in higher potencies also as I thought) & in healing agents of many other so called alternative system--ayurveda etc. Hormesis is just low dose/stimuli effect in comparisn to high dose effect---probably but mostly, homeopathic vs. allopathic effect.
        Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
        Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

        Comment


        • #5
          "To every disadvantage there is a corresponding advantage"
          W. Clement Stone

          "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
          Newton's third law of motion.

          Contributions to toxicology

          Monument to Paracelsus in Beratzhausen, BavariaParacelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:[9]

          German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daŖ ein Ding kein Gift ist.

          "All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

          That is to say, substances often considered toxic can be benign or beneficial in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily benign substance can be deadly if over-consumed. Even water can be deadly if overconsumed[10
          Paracelsus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
          Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kayveeh View Post
            Knowledge, chemicals, foods, supplements, replacements , traditional healing agents, surgeroy etc. are not the property of allopathy. If encouragenment & support of public money would had given to other systems they could also be able to do so.
            It is not a question of property. Modern medicine is about anything that can be showed to work.

            Allo mean different and is defined as;
            I know. It is a misnomer, I'm just using it here because it seems to be the only expression that certain people understand.


            So whatever different from normal & if found by allopathy, can be taken as its property.
            No. There is really no such thing as 'allopathy'. Modern medicine uses whatever can be shown to work. It is not a question of property. Modern method is a principle. A principle cannot own something.

            Hans
            You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
              It is not a question of property. Modern medicine is about anything that can be showed to work.
              Then what is the problem with homeopathic remedies? These have also shown to work & alike many modern mediciens, real science of working may not yet be known in science.



              I know. It is a misnomer, I'm just using it here because it seems to be the only expression that certain people understand.

              No. There is really no such thing as 'allopathy'. Modern medicine uses whatever can be shown to work. It is not a question of property. Modern method is a principle. A principle cannot own something.

              Hans
              Simply, modern medicine system want to justfy everything with one eye but do not differenciate agents with side/adverse effects or least side/adverse effects

              ---body controlled or medicines controled agents.
              Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
              Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kayveeh View Post
                Then what is the problem with homeopathic remedies? These have also shown to work & alike many modern mediciens, real science of working may not yet be known in science.
                The problem is that homeopathic medicines have not been shown to work, and that the homeopathic paradigm is incompatible with our knowledge of how the body functions.

                Simply, modern medicine system want to justfy everything with one eye but do not differenciate agents with side/adverse effects or least side/adverse effects

                ---body controlled or medicines controled agents.
                Not correct. Modern medicine is acutely aware of side effects, and massive research goes into managing and minimizing them.

                Hans
                You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
                  The problem is that homeopathic medicines have not been shown to work, and that the homeopathic paradigm is incompatible with our knowledge of how the body functions.
                  It can be bit easy to show the effects (real & side) of concentrated chemicals & of toxic substances but it may be not shown similarlily in case of weak dilutions due to their delicacy & individual effects but with least adverse affects.



                  Not correct. Modern medicine is acutely aware of side effects, and massive research goes into managing and minimizing them.

                  Hans
                  I meant consistency with side/adverse effects & inconsitency with least adverse effects. On one hand you give but on other you also take much. Whereas homeopathy only give.
                  Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                  Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kayveeh View Post
                    It can be bit easy to show the effects (real & side) of concentrated chemicals & of toxic substances but it may be not shown similarlily in case of weak dilutions due to their delicacy & individual effects but with least adverse affects.
                    Nonsense. Either a medicine works, or it doesn't. If it works, some of the patients using it will get better.


                    I meant consistency with side/adverse effects & inconsitency with least adverse effects. On one hand you give but on other you also take much. Whereas homeopathy only give.
                    Homeopathy is indeed quite consistent: No effects, no side effects.

                    However, let me point out that all those terrible side effects from conventional meds are mostly in the mind of people who promote alternative meds. In real life, the vast majority of patients experience little or no side effects.

                    Hans
                    You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
                      Nonsense. Either a medicine works, or it doesn't. If it works, some of the patients using it will get better.
                      It do happens in homeopathy.




                      Homeopathy is indeed quite consistent: No effects, no side effects.
                      No, it has effects with least side effects.

                      However, let me point out that all those terrible side effects from conventional meds are mostly in the mind of people who promote alternative meds. In real life, the vast majority of patients experience little or no side effects.

                      Hans
                      Side/adverse effects are quite common & mentioned with each medicine.
                      Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                      Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kayveeh View Post
                        It do happens in homeopathy.

                        No, it has effects with least side effects.
                        No trial, using a sound protocol, has ever shown homeopathy to have any effect over placebo, on any disease. I'm sorry, but that's a fact.

                        Also, no experiment with a sound protocol has ever shown homeopathic remedies to be distinguishable from blank preparation above the level of pure chance.

                        Hans
                        You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
                          No trial, using a sound protocol, has ever shown homeopathy to have any effect over placebo, on any disease. I'm sorry, but that's a fact.

                          Also, no experiment with a sound protocol has ever shown homeopathic remedies to be distinguishable from blank preparation above the level of pure chance.

                          Hans
                          Protocols of difference systems should be set different as per cost-benefit ratio. With least adverse effects, more inconsistency can be valid in view of cost-benefit ration. Effects in mass & educated people and in tests are observed.

                          Although I am trying to understand molecular presense but I now do also feel, all happenings & interactions are recorded in nature at global level( I think enthaply). Things are just structured to recieve, process & express those signals recorded in nature/environment. Signals being kinetic in nature alike radio waves, may not be stored in substances but expressed alioke radio reciever. As such, mostly all substances even atoms, molecules etc. may also have memory in the form of potential energy or potential to energy. Can't it?
                          Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                          Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kayveeh View Post
                            Protocols of difference systems should be set different as per cost-benefit ratio. With least adverse effects, more inconsistency can be valid in view of cost-benefit ration. Effects in mass & educated people and in tests are observed.
                            Protocols should, of course, fit the thing tested. However, it is not particularly difficult to design a test protocol that allows for homeopathic practice. Any medical student can do it.

                            Although I am trying to understand molecular presense but I now do also feel, all happenings & interactions are recorded in nature at global level( I think enthaply). Things are just structured to recieve, process & express those signals recorded in nature/environment. Signals being kinetic in nature alike radio waves, may not be stored in substances but expressed alioke radio reciever. As such, mostly all substances even atoms, molecules etc. may also have memory in the form of potential energy or potential to energy. Can't it?
                            No. Please don't try to use concepts that you don't understand. Radio waves are simple physical phenomenon that follow simple and specific natural laws, but if you don't understand those laws, you will only get confused.

                            Hans
                            You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MRC_Hans View Post
                              Protocols should, of course, fit the thing tested. However, it is not particularly difficult to design a test protocol that allows for homeopathic practice. Any medical student can do it.
                              Simply, we may have to design by taking delicate & individual effects alongwith cost benifit ratio due to least least adverse effects. Even 20% is consistent that should be considered.



                              No. Please don't try to use concepts that you don't understand. Radio waves are simple physical phenomenon that follow simple and specific natural laws, but if you don't understand those laws, you will only get confused.

                              Hans
                              Otherwise,how information/memory, which can be in wave form, can be stored as memory in brain? In reality, are signals/information not in energetic form--waves? Whether brain or any other information storing tool is not structural tool to receive, process & express informations corresponding to that?
                              Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                              Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X