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  • Placebo Effect

    Has anyone heard of the term 'placebo effect by proxy'. If so, how might this relate to homeopathy?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Naturalhealth
    Has anyone heard of the term 'placebo effect by proxy'. If so, how might this relate to homeopathy?
    Just read at:

    http://www.arthursmithphd.com/chapter4.htm

    Are you trying to find something about this:-

    http://www.hans-egebo.dk/skeptic/Hom...%20article.htm

    http://www.skepticreport.com/health/hahnemann.htm

    You may understand something about this by studing & understanding(not only reading) the mentionings in my topic on EMs & Reiki--'Anyone there'.
    Last edited by kayveeh; 4th May 2004, 11:07 AM.
    Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
    Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for those links. The first one is ok, however, I am afraid that I will not be reading anything that our dear friend MRC Hans has to say or anything that is in any way related to him and his friends at Randiland. He seems to feel that he has the ability to totally re-write and re-interpret The Organon better than Hahnemann himself.

      I will read your posting on Reiki again though.

      Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        Natural Health

        No, give rights to members to write whatever they have in their minds but do only that thing which appeal you or which is in your mind. MRC posts are very informative but accepting or rejecting someone views is your personal thinking and right and you can enjoy your right at any time. No body will object. But don't force the members to speak what is in your mind or what you feel on a issue.
        Hafeez
        Forum Pk

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes ok. From reading some of his posts here, I have to say that they do seem to be totally different. It is just that my experience of him over at Hpathy, where he was banned, along with lots of others was completely different and not so informative.

          Perhaps this board is different and is really for sharing information? I hope so anyway.

          Comment


          • #6
            ...and moreover it may reflect some fear if we avoid, straight away reject or show any irritation. If we are true, no need to fear or avoid. On the contrary it is better to satisfy these type of people on their points. Several therapies including CMS do have several hidden, unsolved, unknown, & other if & buts, how, unknown reasonings, causes & effects are not known etc. etc...then why to avoid or fear.
            Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
            Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

            Comment


            • #7
              But don't force the members to speak what is in your mind or what you feel on a issue.
              Dr Mas, please be careful about misinterpreting what other Members say.
              Nobody can force another Member to hold the same opinion. That is up to each Member to choose what they decide to believe.

              Naturalhealth's post merely stated an opinion -- it was not inciteful, calling for others to agree with him/her.

              Naturalhealth,
              The environment was much like what you experienced at Hpathy for a while. Those that breached the BB rules and brought this board down to personal slagging matches, were banned. Those that didn't, have not been banned. (The point being that anyone can discuss controversial topics, in the appropriate forum, as long as they do so with good will and within the BB Rules/Guidelines. NB: such is the case with MRC_Hans on this BB.).
              Last edited by LisaAnnan; 5th May 2004, 06:42 AM. Reason: clarification
              "The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
              Carroll Dunham

              Comment


              • #8
                Placebo

                Placebo is non medicinal follow up of medication which is recommended to complete the effect of one already given remedy
                it is very much recommended in classical homeopathy but I feel quite contraversial of its use
                Its entirely a matter of your acting on your concience as Homeopath or performing ditto to ditto as read in the old homeopathys books
                yes I dont use placebo in my paratice as patient might not be knowing it but as a healer I know what I am giving and morality ,to me , dont permit
                SORRY TO ALL THOSE CLASSICAL HOMEOPATH WHO FIND IT EASY TO GIVE PLACEBOTO THEIR PATIENTS IN THE PRETEXT OF MEDICATION

                Comment


                • #9
                  Durgs may also have "placebo effects". A new research read at:

                  http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994996
                  Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                  Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The idea of the placebo effect came from a double blind study of pregnant women with nausea. They were given Ipecacua (allopathically) and some of them improved. The only reason the allopaths could figure out for the improvement, since the Ipecacua was supposed to make them vomit, was that they improved because they thought they had taken something that would make them better. Little did they know that the women responded homeopathically!
                    Shirley Reischman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think when we take any food, some part of it absorbed in mouth homeopathically esp. its inorganic part. This may trigger body system to be prepared/ready for that food, the major portion of it is to be absorbed via intestines. These two types of absorptions may balance with each other & may not show any remedy's effect. But when one vomits the major portion of that food than the absorption across the mouth may show some remedy's effects. More chewing is adviced--may be due to this reason. This is all natural system/process to correct any imbalance.

                      This logic can indicate working of homeopathic remedies in some sense.
                      Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                      Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This logic can indicate working of homeopathic remedies in some sense.
                        Kayveeh,
                        Remember the 5th & 6th paragraphs in the footnote of 11. (Pssssst: dynamic, vitalist. Not materialist)
                        "The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
                        Carroll Dunham

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sreischman
                          The idea of the placebo effect came from a double blind study of pregnant women with nausea. They were given Ipecacua (allopathically) and some of them improved. The only reason the allopaths could figure out for the improvement, since the Ipecacua was supposed to make them vomit, was that they improved because they thought they had taken something that would make them better. Little did they know that the women responded homeopathically!
                          I did not know that.

                          All the better to shove it in allopathic faces as presumptuous absurdities from ignorance about medicinal powers that their primary gripe with us is a total falsehood anyway and originated in a misinterpretation from ignorance of homeopathic effects.

                          Heehaw!

                          Thank you, sweetie.
                          Albert, also Hahnemannian444B
                          www.GiggleBoggleJabbleGooby.com/HaHa

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kayveeh
                            I think when we take any food, some part of it absorbed in mouth homeopathically esp. its inorganic part. This may trigger body system to be prepared/ready for that food, the major portion of it is to be absorbed via intestines. These two types of absorptions may balance with each other & may not show any remedy's effect. But when one vomits the major portion of that food than the absorption across the mouth may show some remedy's effects. More chewing is adviced--may be due to this reason. This is all natural system/process to correct any imbalance.

                            This logic can indicate working of homeopathic remedies in some sense.
                            These are ultramolecular ("beyond-molecules"), subAvogadrean ("below-Avogadro's-number") drugs better called etheric medicines.

                            Therefore, no part of it is absorbed, and physical chemistry plays no part in homeopathic effect except as incidental reactions or after effects of the primary effect of these higher-plane drugs.

                            Please be careful with such speculations if they ignore these central facts of our therapy and are made irrelevant by such facts.

                            ------------

                            This is 21st-Century medicine par excellence that's already 200 years old as homeopathy, apparently over 1500 years old as legitimate Spagyric medicine (Europe in the Dark and Middle Ages up till the Inquisition and Reformation, when finally murdered by vile priests in the Pauline, Lutheran and Calvanist Churches), and many thousands of years old as both Hermetic medicine (ancient Egypt and classical Greek, until destroyed by the vile Pauline Church beginning with the so-called "Christian" sacking of Alexandria in AD 393) and an unknown form of homeopathy from the ancient Rama Empire (India) or what academics ignorant of arcane archives are calling the Harapan (sp?) Culture of the Indus Valley until destroyed by the vile Brahmans or a comet or meteor, as seen in surviving fragments of literature from the respective periods.

                            Nothing is more astounding to newcommers to homeopathy than discovering that:

                            1. Allopathic medicine is total quackery admitted to by all the quacks we call MDs; that

                            2. They dismiss homeopathy on an a priori basis (i.e., from primary assumptions or principles in their theoretical structure to resultant conclusions or practices in their practical structure or clinical practice of these erroneous assumptions and resultant therapeutic incompetence) and are both unwilling and unable to test homeopathy because they are hyper-vain and yet ignorant and cannot test homeopathy against their archaic models of health, disease and therapeutics and even their indefensible models of human existence and the nature of the universe; and that

                            3. Homeopathy is both the most ancient and yet futuristic system of medicine that's actually the true Science of Medicine due to the existence of a few nature Laws of Medicine obviously part of the structural backbone of the universe like all other natural laws.

                            Our cures only astound when we apply these laws correctly, but that proves to be an exceedingly difficult exercise for most due to having been long mislead by quasi- and pseudo-homeopaths, which in turn stems simply from failing to study Hahnemann and thereafter being able to recognize Hahnemannians.
                            Last edited by Hahnemannian444; 17th May 2004, 07:45 PM.
                            Albert, also Hahnemannian444B
                            www.GiggleBoggleJabbleGooby.com/HaHa

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hahnemannian444
                              These are ultramolecular ("beyond-molecules"), subAvogadrean ("below-Avogadro's-number") drugs better called etheric medicines.

                              Therefore, no part of it is absorbed, and physical chemistry plays no part in homeopathic effect except as incidental reactions or after effects of the primary effect of these higher-plane drugs.

                              Please be careful with such speculations if they ignore these central facts of our therapy and are made irrelevant by such facts.

                              ------------
                              Albert,
                              Thanks for explaining in detail. I have divided the theory in two parts & covered both molecular & ultramolecular potencies based on both materialistic & energetic basis. We have to accept one thing strongly that, either we don't try to find any logic/science for working of potentised remedies & accept it in a way it is said & continuing(like all spritual systems, religions etc.) OR go on trying to find its logic/science to satisfy us or others. In view of our several discussions " I can take it that all/most likes first option ". If it is so let us ask the moderators to add this in one rule strictly i.e. "no futhur research/discovery & classical saying is absolute & final".
                              Just saying it works as higher plane durgs or etheric medicines may not be sufficient, we may have to show it logically or scientifically if we want to satisfy all as well as us--obiously if we are intrested in it. Otherwise it is ok as it is--probably.

                              I thought to try accordingly & putting several ' can be possibilities '. 'Hit & trials' 'wrong & right' are possible when we try to search.

                              Lisa,
                              Member(not modretor)!

                              How can you define logically/scientifically the terms dynamic, vitalist, Not materialist as mentioned & endorssed by you.
                              Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                              Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                              Comment

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