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  • Newbie questions

    I'll make no bones about it. I have a little experience of homoeopathy and none of it good. Friends want me to take an interest and follow them down this path, but I am reluctant. They have got that scary bright-eyed glint of the true-believer or the newly converted zealot about them and I tend to steer clear of friends and acquaintances who have gone down these paths. I am a scientist by training and cautious by temperament. I have done some reading and have come away even less inclined to believe, but I am open to suggestions. What should I do if I want to pursue this? I am basically pretty healthy and so don't have a readymade health problem to take to a homoeopath. Can board members here suggest something for me to read or something for me to do?

    Can I also ask what are the best online resources? I found this forum, but what are the best ones?

    [ 07. February 2004, 09:06: Message edited by: Bob Sharuncle ]

  • #2
    Just tell your friends to mind their own business and leave you alone. Some people are drawn to homeopathy and some people are not. YOu are not. Don't waste your time.


    • #3
      Yes, but in case you (Bob) are intent on indulging your own intellectual quirks to "prove" to yourself or to your friends that you are "intellectually superior" to homoeopathy and are intent on having some "fun" on some party line internet fantasy... don't bother.

      Homoeopathy cures diseases and heals human suffering.

      People here, apart from the self-indulgent non-homoeopathic troll, have genuine enquiries.
      Please don't treat this site as a party line for your own intellectual entertainment. It is a discussion forum for those who are interested in homoeopathic matters, who are committed to curing chronic disease, who are committed to pursuing the homoeopathic method.
      Please don't attempt to distract those in real need from that which they sincerely wish to attain.


      • #4
        What is the exact nature of your enquiry? You are seeking online treatment for yourself? Online references? Online study courses which will enable you to ask pertinent questions about homoeoapthy?


        • #5
          Wow, Bob may be your uncle, but that avatar under your moniker is a photo of Samuel Clemens/Mark Twain, one of the liveliest supporters of Homeopathic Medicine who ever lived. And lived a long, long, time. Anacardium, I believe, was an excellent constitutional remedy for old Mark/Sam. Ooh, I know, I know, there are plenty of Quackbuster type sites on the net that say this isn't so...but maybe those people just aren't literate, and they can't read Twain's writing.

          How odd that you would hone right in on this bulletin board, when this website has an overwhelming number of links to free publications which would actually describe homeopathy fully to you. Don't you want to read about it for yourself? Or do you just want everyone else to give you the benefits of their knowledge, so you don't have to work for it yourself?

          How odd, also, that your post is like so many others we've seen here. Did someone tell you what to write? It's almost verbatim to posts we've seen from so many "suddenly" curious visitors to this site.

          Well, I guess I can't encourage you to just pick up a book and read about homeopathy--but at least let me say that its what you would do if you were half as interested as you "say" you are. I'm not oging to doubt your intentions, so I wish you well on your studies. Even if you're just so scientific, you can't tell "your friends" about them.

          [ 07. February 2004, 13:36: Message edited by: Divina ]
          ...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine


          • #6
            jonh -

            troll alert.

            but if bob is truly interested, he ought to read Die Traumdeutung, to get an idea what goes on inside his head when he is deciding that the perceptions and experiences of other people are insubstantial.

            BOB!! WAKE UP!!
            "The need to perform adjustments for covariates...weakens the findings." BMJ Clinical Evidence: Mental Health, (No. 11), p. 95.... It's that simple, guys: bad numbers make bad science.


            • #7
              OK. Perhaps people can choose not to respond rather than being just hostile.

              I chose that avatar because it looked a bit like Frank Zappa! Does it mater what Mark Twain thought about homeopathy? I just like the moustache.

              I don't want courses in homoeopathy. I don't want to be a homeopath. I've read books about homoeopathy and been disappointed. frankly, you can't have a science education and not find it all a bit silly. Homeopaths do not just wander into the pub with a sign round there neck to say they are open for discussion and since I am healthy there is no point in going to one to be charged money for a chat about my friend's family issues.

              "Die Traumdeutung" Okay, I think I know what you mean. I know a little bit about psychoanalysis, but not much. Not sure where you're going with this. The medical problem getting me into this is physical not mental.

              I am interested in treatments for childhood allergy problems, mainnly asthma and eczema because that's the medical problem I need to get into. Chris Gillen asks about indulging intellectal quirks. Isn't an internet discussion forums good for that? Chris asked about the specific enquiry so I'll be more specific. OK, the problem is I think my enthusiastic friends have been misled by a homeopath over treatment for eczema. It's been over a year of treatment and the problem is still there. Well, I say it's still there, the parents say the problem is better but she seems just as bad to me. I'm not wanting to cause them unnecessary offence and they're stil frineds, but when is the point I can say to them to give up with this? I think they are being ripped off, the kid's no better but still the keep paying out. I don't know what professional body the homeopath in question belongs to but he is described as practising 'Classical Homeopathy' on his website. I don't understand the different kinds. I didn't realise there were different kinds. So, what do I say? They are still convinced it's the right therapy. I don't want to pick a fight but I think they are doing the wrong thing. I'd feel less bad if I could find some way to tell myself that what they are doing is OK. Is there anyone I can complain to about this guy?

              I know it's a lot of questions and I know it's not very well thought out, but I've been left feeling vaguely angry at the guy doing the treatment and don't seem to be able to do anything. That's why I asked in my first post as well if there is something I can do which is a good way to convince myself when reading the books and hearing the stories has made things worse not better. I guess I'm a skeptic by default, but isn't that a good thing? If you see what I mean.


              BTW, " when he is deciding that the perceptions and experiences of other people are insubstantial." I never said anything like that. If people feel bad then say they feel beter I can't tell what's goingon inside them but I do know when a kid still has problems and her parents still won't get them seen by proper medical help. This isnt a problem inside someone's head it's obvious to anyone who looks at the skin.

              I'd still like pointers to other forums if possible which might be helpful. What are and ABChomeopathy like? What I mean is where do the best professional homeopaths hang out in cyrbersapce?

              [ 07. February 2004, 18:22: Message edited by: Bob Sharuncle ]
              Last edited by Bob Sharuncle; 26th October 2004, 09:13 PM.


              • #8
                I'm not a homeopath but you'll find some good ones at this site if you present your case...that is giving the complaint you have, what makes it worse and what makes it better..descriptioon of the sensations you are feeling and any other seemingly unconnected problem that you might have at the same time. Also..symptoms that may be new and current are important.

                As far as your friend with the acne...if she is feeling better about and within herself...(perhaps she felt ugly before..but now she has more self acceptance)this may point towards a cure in the making...and the skin problem may be the last thing to go. On the other hand she could be dealing with someone who doesn't know what they are which would be up to her to present her case here and get a second opinion.


                • #9
                  Bob Sharuncle,

                  You can read the minds of so called non-sense homeopathic lovers. Here you ask a question, the question was simple, positive and genuine but these people have already made up their minds before offering their responses on your question. One is trying to become smart by declaring you a troll. You will also find them saying "we don't have closed minds" I don't know to whom you will call closed mind people.

                  Dear member and are the best resource available in the internet world. You will find most of the answers of your queries from the pages available at these sites.

                  I can understand your concerns. Homeopathy is not 100 percent treatment. If your friends were not succeeded with homeopathic treatment then you can try any other therapy. To us homeopathy is the best therapy. If you disagree you have all the rights.

                  [ 07. February 2004, 21:36: Message edited by: Arshad Sheikh Homeopath ]


                  • #10
                    It's eczema, by the way.

                    I'll suggest a second opinion, though they may insist on yet another homoeopath.

                    i still think the guy's a crook. Who can I complain to if I think he's doing things that just don't work but pulling the wool over their eyes so they still keep going back to him? I know it's difficult when it's not your own medical problem, but if you know a shop sells defective goods you can complain, if you think a doctor is misbehaving there are bodies tehy can be reported to who will do the investigation to see if the case is worth pursuing.

                    There is still that second line of enquiry I set going. Is there anything the homoeopaths here can show me to make me think I'm being too harsh on homoeopathy?


                    [ 07. February 2004, 21:36: Message edited by: Bob Sharuncle ]


                    • #11
                      Robert said:
                      ""you can't have a science education and not find it all a bit silly. "

                      Oops...Aren't you giving us, scientists, a bad-name here? Close-minded buffons who ridicule what they can't understand?
                      Fortunately, not all of them! No scientific dioscoveries would ever be made if people limited themselves to the sphere of their understanding.
                      You found the ORGANON silly? Which part?

                      Crooks are everywhere and in all professions-why not find one in homeopathy? The one you talk about might not be quite good-but that doesn't mean that homeopathy is worthless. You didn't have logical reasoning in your scientific education?
                      Astra<br /><br />"Difficult cases take some time to be cured,<br />impossible - a little longer."


                      • #12
                        a 5 y.o. boy was diagnosed as autistic; the psychiatrist involved recommended that i not waste my time with psychotherapy, as autism cannot be cured (the prevailing view in contemporary mental health circles). 5 years later, the boy, now enrolled in regular education classrooms, was seen by another psychiatrist, who indicated the original diagnosis had to have been wrong, as autism can not be cured. in between, about half way through in fact, i was so discouraged in the case i felt like giving up, in face of such severe pathology, feeling like no ground had been gained. one day, i opened the case file and went through it in detail from the beginning, and was astonished at how far the boy had come: a fact i was unable to see, until have the passage of a good deal of time, i was able to observe the accumulated effects of treatment.

                        i assume you will be charitable, for the purposes of discussion, and assume the improvement was due to the therapy, and not a coincidence. in any case, it may well be that this is what you are doing in the situation with your friends - assuming for the purposes of discussion that they are real people, and not made up to manipulate our emotions, or to disturb the social commerce of this board.

                        beyond this, people see what they want to see, or what they are able to see. they interpret their case records according to their talent for distinguishing the two. and they interpret their scientific data the same way.

                        there are no good homeopathic sites, there are only good visitors. there are no good scientific studies, only good people capable of reasoned interpretation. for someone who is not blessed with vision, there are no beautiful paintings.

                        you will never learn about homeopathy with your current mental set. what you must do first is to examine your own mental set. it is well said that it is easier to see the shortcomings in others than in ourselves. find your own shortcomings, the chinks in the armor of statistical method, the so-called scientific mindset. i say 'so-called,' because true science is open to all options, and you really don't seem to fit that particular bill, bob.

                        "The need to perform adjustments for covariates...weakens the findings." BMJ Clinical Evidence: Mental Health, (No. 11), p. 95.... It's that simple, guys: bad numbers make bad science.


                        • #13
                          Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no cure for eczema, so really the question would be whether or not the child feels relief while on homeopathic treatment. Allopathic treatment consists of suppressive treatments which afford short term relief. Homeopathy concentrates on healing the whole person (what has gone wrong in the body to make it suseptible to excema?). Skin ailments are difficult to treat, in homeopathy the belief is that the skin shows signs of deeper disease. There are many ill-trained homeopaths out there, where I live there are a bunch of "Naturalpaths" with very minimal homeopathic training, practicing; there are not very effective practitioners. I am working through a science degree, I don't believe myself to be gulliable (just a really poor speller!), but I have been fortunate to see homeopathy work (absolutely) on animals (who are so totally impartial) time and time again. I have experimented on myself, and do believe it works. I do however recognize that it can not be resonably explained today, but then it took us long enough to realize that the earth is not flat. For now I am content to study homeopathy when I can and strive to fully understand it first before I attempt to seek modern explainations to its inner workings.
                          What I might suggest if you fear this homeopath to be lousy, is to post the case and the remedies given (dosages and frequencies) and collect other homeopathic opinion on validity of the treatment. Keep in mind that these are just opinions and many people will interprete the teachings in various ways, but if this homeopath is totally off the mark (ie obviously not educated in homeopathy at all) -you'll get the message.
                          If you are truely interested, start at the origin of homeopathy and read the Organon by Samuel Hannemann (did I spell that right???), the 5th or 6th edition seem to be highly favoured.

                          [ 08. February 2004, 00:43: Message edited by: kkrista ]


                          • #14
                            Bob, YOU may have a hard time accepting anything other than what you think is "scientific".

                            The number of science-minded people (including chemists, physicists, doctors, nurses, biologists, botanists) who are curious about, learn about, and practice homeopathy make up the majority of homeopaths. I just don't buy the conclusion that scientists don't get homeopathy. It is simply not true. Homeopathy is an exact science--and its no accident that it was founded as a medical treatment by a doctor whose other specialties included chemistry and languages.

                            Man, I love Frank Zappa and his whole history...but I just don't see any resemblance between him and that other Sam. Also, Frank's background was "scientific" too--his dad was a researcher. Given Frank's general disdain for the status quo in anything...I've no doubt in my mind he'd "get" homeopathy pretty easily.

                            [ 08. February 2004, 12:51: Message edited by: Divina ]
                            ...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine


                            • #15
                              "there are no good homeopathic sites, there are only good visitors. there are no good scientific studies, only good people capable of reasoned interpretation. for someone who is not blessed with vision, there are no beautiful paintings."

                              That was lovely Bach.