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is homeopathy mere placebo?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Similibus View Post
    If a homeopath was to burn two music CDs - one plays Metallica and the other plays Mozart- could a good analytical chemist tell the difference?
    A mathematician, a physicist and a teenager could. The first two wouldn't need to hear it.

    Terrible analogy.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Kaviraj View Post
      I mentioned van Wijk and Wiegant as well as Doutremepouch in an answer in one of the threads - i think it was the placebo thread.
      Since that post, silence from Moopet and Hans - possibly overwhelmed by the abundant reports from reputable science mags and other publications.
      Do you mean the massive post you re-pasted from your 2006 post on considera?
      It's too long; I haven't had time to read it yet. Will get round to it. If it's something else, please link.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by moopet View Post
        Do you mean the massive post you re-pasted from your 2006 post on considera?
        It's too long; I haven't had time to read it yet. Will get round to it. If it's something else, please link.
        no, i do not paste from considera and yes it is massive, so that you cannot say i give no proof.

        I don not need to link to my own work
        Do not accept or reject anything before you have investigated it and that on its own merits.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by moopet View Post
          A mathematician, a physicist and a teenager could. The first two wouldn't need to hear it.
          I'm sure you are an intelligent guy Moopet, but you don't always come across that way. I asked whether an analytical chemist could tell the difference between the two CDs. The implication here is that he or she would be using analytical chemistry to attempt to determine the difference - not physics, maths, or a CD player.
          These are my personal views and not necessarily my professional views.The content is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR LOCAL PHYSICIAN.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Similibus View Post
            I'm sure you are an intelligent guy Moopet, but you don't always come across that way. I asked whether an analytical chemist could tell the difference between the two CDs. The implication here is that he or she would be using analytical chemistry to attempt to determine the difference - not physics, maths, or a CD player.
            I don't know why we are wasting our time with these trolls. The proof of homeopathy is in its ability to heal. End of story.

            If any of these skeptics really want to see if it works, they could try taking a homeopathic remedy and see if it helps them. Of course most of them would be so biased as to not admit that it helped them in any way.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by moopet View Post
              It's too long; I haven't had time to read it yet. Will get round to it. If it's something else, please link.
              as i said, overwhelmed by the evidence and then giving a lame excuse.
              Do not accept or reject anything before you have investigated it and that on its own merits.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by OldStyle View Post
                I don't know why we are wasting our time with these trolls. The proof of homeopathy is in its ability to heal. End of story.
                The sceptics can be a little tedious at times, but we must do our best to bring these good people out of the dark ages and enlighten them. Homeopathy is the Scientific Revolution in Medicine - it might be happening a few hundred years late - but it is happening for sure. Tens of millions of people know that homeopathy works. We are on the threshold of great advances in science, advances in thought (consciousness), and advances in the ability of the general population to be healthy, leading to social reform.

                The sceptics will eventually all die out, through a process of natural selection. Homeopaths are acutely aware of how the gene pool of the human race is being progressively weakened by the present application of pharmaceutical medicines - the continued suppression of natural immune responses resulting in the appearance of ever more deep-seated chronic disease (Hahnemann's Theory of Chronic Disease). This, in combination with junk diet, little exercise, immunisation, and constant exposure to 'chemicals foreign to nature' in the food we eat, air we breath, and water we drink, is a recipe for annihilation.

                Pharmaceutical medicines are used to disable/ forbid the body's very efforts towards life/ health/ recovery/ survival. Continued suppression of symptoms results in a chronically suppressed immune response - a response which has evolved over millions of years to ensure the survival of the species. As pharmaceuticals have become increasingly effective at the suppression of natural symptoms, the consequences have become increasingly severe. The immune response goes haywire, and starts attacking the body itself (auto-immune disease), or reacting to anything that it encounters (allergies). Just as a healthy immune response is passed on to offspring, so is a crippled immune response. The constitutional health degenerates a little more with each generation, giving rise to ever more deep-seated, complex diseases, combined with a diminished ability to resist them.

                Thank goodness there is light! Thank goodness there is homeopathy, the true science of therapeutics, which has precisely the opposite effect.

                But I digress...
                These are my personal views and not necessarily my professional views.The content is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR LOCAL PHYSICIAN.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Similibus View Post
                  The sceptics will eventually all die out, through a process of natural selection.
                  Homeopaths are acutely aware of how the gene pool of the human race is being progressively weakened by the present application of pharmaceutical medicines - the continued suppression of natural immune responses resulting in the appearance of ever more deep-seated chronic disease (Hahnemann's Theory of Chronic Disease). This, in combination with junk diet, little exercise, immunisation, and constant exposure to 'chemicals foreign to nature' in the food we eat, air we breath, and water we drink, is a recipe for annihilation.
                  Similibus, your post is a little selfcontradictory, i am sorry to say. Pharmaceutical patent medicines, available without prescription are bought by millions. They destroy the brains they have, to the point that there is nothing right in the left brain and nothing left in the right brain. It is also the recipe for creating sceptics and trolls. How are they going to die out when pharmaceutical drugs create nothing but?
                  Do not accept or reject anything before you have investigated it and that on its own merits.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Kaviraj View Post
                    Similibus, your post is a little selfcontradictory, i am sorry to say. Pharmaceutical patent medicines, available without prescription are bought by millions. They destroy the brains they have, to the point that there is nothing right in the left brain and nothing left in the right brain. It is also the recipe for creating sceptics and trolls. How are they going to die out when pharmaceutical drugs create nothing but?
                    I agree that this is part of the problem. People suppress their immune response these days without even knowing that they are doing it - calpol for every fever, paracetamol for every pain, antibiotics for every 'infection', immodium for a bit of diarrhoea, decongestants for every cold... the people are doing it to themselves!

                    Perhaps vaccination delays our development for a few crucial months, lowering the average IQ of the population? Or perhaps the people just don't know they have a choice yet? Perhaps they never tried homeopathy? Perhaps they still believe that homeopathy doesn't work, and are willing to bet their lives on that belief? I'm not sure why these people don't try it and see for themselves.

                    What is more valuable than health? Who doesn't want more energy for life? I suppose if you have never felt buzzing, vibrant health, where you are brimming with happiness and a sense of satisfaction and well-being for no apparent reason - if you have never experienced the increased resistance to stress that comes from an apparent ability to adapt to almost any situation (and the accompanying increase in focus and performance)- or the sense of joy and freedom that comes after the release from years of pain and discomfort and fear when you thought that there was no hope - and the sense of security that you feel as you replace your fear of disease with a healthy understanding and a sensible respect - if you've never seen all your relationships improve and your life come to a natural balance as a reflection of all of this ... well then I guess you just don't know what you are missing.
                    These are my personal views and not necessarily my professional views.The content is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR LOCAL PHYSICIAN.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Similibus said:
                      well then I guess you just don't know what you are missing.

                      Indeed, they have no idea. if you do not know what it is you are missing, you miss nothing and so you cannot be converted to something you do not know. This is the great hurdle and how we can get them to jump it is beyond me. Apart from the challenge to try it - even if only to show that Belladonna does give you a headache when you do not need it - i know of no possibility.
                      Regular doctors always decline such proposals - they seem to know they are caught out by it and leave the discussion.
                      Those who know nothing about medicine other than Randi and his ilk, seem to think they can just avoid the subject and keep harassing us with useless banter and circular reasoning.
                      Hence why should we waste our time?
                      Do not accept or reject anything before you have investigated it and that on its own merits.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Dear Friends,

                        I read on a blog of one person with a chornic illness that they - or at least, their partner, because that entry was written by the partner, think that chronic illness is preferable to acute fatal illness, so there is no point in complaining about rising healthcare costs etc. and they should only be happy that the person is still alive and can do their favourite job...

                        I decided to bring to your attention that while people are being effectively taught through media that indeed they should be happy that they are still alive although they might yet have "minor" disabilities due to chronic illness, the costs of all the pharmaceutical interventions, at least for developped countries, are approaching the limit affordable to general population, and I just read today that Merck was cutting 7200 jobs world wide, closing 3 research institutes, one of which in Japan, and at the end of the article there was a little sentence saying that sales of vaccines were a "hard battle" (if translated form Japanese), meaning they failed to produce the desired results... so they chose to try to cut their costs so as to reduce pressure on profits with expiration of patents on their major drugs pending in years 2009, 2010.

                        Besides everyone is so sick, that here in Japan one often hears recently that all the hospitals are full and urgent patients are refused by several hospitals - so in the end the patient ends up dying even before a hospital was found to accept them. The most terrible episode was when a little girl of 8 was attacked by someone with a knife (the police still have not caught the criminal) - this sort of aggressive insanity is also a result of all the suppression that Similibus describes, so the world is getting increasingly violent - according to the media... - and received several deep wounds in her abdomen, and it took the emergency vehicle more than one hour to get her to a place where she could be accepted. She was in pain but in full consciousness when they started off, but unconscious because of excessive bleeding when she arrived, and died shortly of the massive blood loss already in the hospital. THe newspaper report said that she said that she had an impression of having received a blow rather than cut by a knife - it is so sad to know that a dose of Arnica 1M or so could have saved her!

                        Indeed, some people are getting further and further from homeopathy and healing in general, but I have also noted observing the general population here (in Japan) that people from around the 3rd generation of persons who receive all vaccination schedule (well, this depends, of course, on the initial strength of constitution, but here the 3rd generation seems to be affected most often) tend to grow infertile...Too much sycosis... So it's the dead end anyway.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Kaviraj View Post
                          Similibus said:
                          Hence why should we waste our time?
                          I think it is important to have critics. How can we show that homeopathy stands up to scrutiny if nobody is doing the scrutinising? Homeopathy is going through the baptism of fire that every new paradigm must go through before the paradigm is accepted, and the world-view is changed. Homeopaths are the Healthfood Freaks of the 21st century. [In the 1980's people who advocated low fat, whole food diets were derided as Healthfood Hippies and Healthfood Freaks.]

                          I believe the sceptics also have some valid criticisms, which help us to develop and improve as a profession. We should have better regulation, for example, or at least we should here in the UK (The Society of Homeopaths have been working hard towards this for several years). We should have better reporting systems for cured cases and adverse reactions, but again those things are changing. All these things are much easier to achieve after a new paradigm has received general acceptance - better regulation tends to happen as a consequence - and so these criticisms are also arguments for the speedy acceptance of homeopathy as a viable therapy.

                          I honestly welcome criticism from a genuine sceptic. However, the sceptics who take scepticism to a pathological degree - to the point where it becomes a religion for them and they lose all sense of scientific objectivity - well, there is little point in conversing with those guys, unless they are assisting us to educate the reader about the benefits of homeopathy, and the science and logic behind it.
                          These are my personal views and not necessarily my professional views.The content is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR LOCAL PHYSICIAN.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            imilibus wrote:
                            I honestly welcome criticism from a genuine sceptic. However, the sceptics who take scepticism to a pathological degree - to the point where it becomes a religion for them and they lose all sense of scientific objectivity - well, there is little point in conversing with those guys, unless they are assisting us to educate the reader about the benefits of homeopathy, and the science and logic behind it. End of quote.

                            I like your positive attitude. However, repetition is the name of the game and so we teach the public little else than the same things over and over and they must feel it is either us not having better answers or the sceptics possibly having a point.
                            Such a state of affairs is not good for homoeopathy. It is also not good for the sceptic, but is the ignorant public aware of that? I doubt it.
                            So I have replied to these sceptics enough - i have made everything clear and will not waste anymore time with them. As they say - my posts are too long and they will not go through the trouble of reading them.
                            The public may read and will understand i do not want to waste my time - we have better things to do. They will understand i made my point and learn more from that than me repeating the same thing over and over.
                            So let us get on with the more important things we as homoeopaths have to deal with - curing the sick.
                            Do not accept or reject anything before you have investigated it and that on its own merits.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Elena Zagrebelnaya View Post

                              Indeed, some people are getting further and further from homeopathy and healing in general, but I have also noted observing the general population here (in Japan) that people from around the 3rd generation of persons who receive all vaccination schedule (well, this depends, of course, on the initial strength of constitution, but here the 3rd generation seems to be affected most often) tend to grow infertile...Too much sycosis... So it's the dead end anyway.
                              That has also been my experience.
                              These are my personal views and not necessarily my professional views.The content is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR LOCAL PHYSICIAN.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Kaviraj View Post
                                i
                                The public may read and will understand i do not want to waste my time - we have better things to do. They will understand i made my point and learn more from that than me repeating the same thing over and over.
                                So let us get on with the more important things we as homoeopaths have to deal with - curing the sick.
                                Certainly. Many people feel like that, and of course you are not obliged to respond to their ridiculous criticisms.
                                These are my personal views and not necessarily my professional views.The content is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR LOCAL PHYSICIAN.

                                Comment

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