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  • Homeopathy: Some Issues?

    Hello,

    Some issues do make me bit confused and fearful:-

    Law of Similia
    Law of Simplex
    Law of Minimum

    The above are three basic laws/principles of homeopathy.

    Law of Simila:-

    Dr.Hahn. gifited us many remedies and theories. He might be too enthusiastic of getting knowledge of dynamic effects on potentisation. He tried many substances and got effects from them. Probably all or most substances can show some symptoms and effects. He edited many books, may also be on other healing systems. So he got many remedies and theories, which he had also tried and observed, practically. Though some dynamic energetic effects and theories might had also previously existed in some form, but Dr.Hahn. has a credit of introducing those in diciplined ond systematic manner. Still, there can be some repetitions in constituents of homeopathic raw remedies substances and theories. To justify natural i.e. inherant sense of right and wrong, our body should be adapted, evolved or habitual to the normal & consistent exposure to any given substance. But many raw remedy substances, higher potencies and theories may not justify such "natural" consideration. In such thoughts, will it not be more justified to prune remedies to the extent that, which are "natural" to us and which just balance the imbalances in " our nature or homeostasis". I think, Dr. Sch.(only he), on introducing tissue remedies, might had considered such "natural" and homogenous aspect. Still, there can be some other tissue salts, homogenous/isopathical remedies and nutritional remedies from our natural routine foods and ingestions which may probably serve a purpose of "natral cure" in more justified way. Is there any resemblence in "allo"[pathy] and "hetro"[genous]?

    Law of Simplex:

    What a normal healer's brain can carry or the capicity of single healer to incorporate in his prescription, all the theories and details of all remedies, diseases and individuals and can apply on effecting healing--- may mean a justified healing art. Whether mushrooming remedies, theories, diseases and individuals can fit within the capacity of one normal brain of a healer to effect such justified cure? Whether such mushrooming do not oppose law of simplex and law of minimum? If yes, will it not be better to do pruning, editing and thinning of homeopathic muhrooming remedies and theories to fit the same in one normal brain of any healer and effect justified cure? Is there any resemblence in mushroming of conventional and current homeopathic systems?

    Law of Minimum:

    It was quite dynamism and an obligation of Dr.Hahn. to give us dynamic effects and minimum doses in diciplined manner. But probably, he might had missed in enthusiasm a dynamic thought of giving us "minimums" of others in remedies and theories. Therefore, we can see "mushromings" in homeopathy too alike in conventional system. Furthur, "minimum" may mean "minimum" material/chemical doses in homeopathic sense, but I feel there can be "minimum" of dynamic energetic stimulations. Probably, hetrogenous substances and higher potencies may result in toxicities on such dynamic energetic stimulations as hetrogenous substances and higher potencies may not be "natural" to us. As such, these may reverse our inherited and acquired physiology, tolerances, habits, resistances, immunities etc. by their stimulating hetrogenous and deep effects and making us difficult to maintain in changed environment and modern lifestyle. "Need of the time" and survival under changed atmosphere/environment is need to be maintained for survival and for "survival of fittest". Probably only Dr. Sch. thought accordingly, by introducing homogenous and minimum remedies, lower potencies and mimimum theories. Furthur we can also think dynamically about harming/excessive aggravation of hetrogenous nature [somewhat bad mantra or cursing type effects] by the applications of hetrogenous remedies and higher potencies. Is there any resemblence in material and energetic toxicities in the outcome on application of such higher status healing agents-- concentrated material/chemical doses and energeting stimulating toxicities?

    You may also read one such issue in detail in postings on following link:-

    Tolerances & Homeopathy?
    http://www.hpathy.com/homeopathyforu...?TID=6547&PN=1

    Sorry, if few felt bit differently.

    Best wishes.
    Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
    Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

  • #2
    ...Cotd.

    Scientific Validity of Homeopathy:- Dynamic effects from higher potencies are well observed and experianced by homeopathic community but not by scientific community, consitently in DBPC studies. Furthur science of homeopathic effects and presence of raw remedies substances in higher potencies remained unmeasurable, a truth, miss or weakness as per their current measurable technology of science. As such, homeopathic effects are interpreted as placebo effect by them and its legal and moral validity/existance may be based on "posing no harm". But still ,some basis of "time lapse" in giving the needed treatments can pop up anytime in view of inconsistency in outcome, non-presence of raw remedy substance, placebo effects, least side effects etc.

    As such, can it be better and in the long term interest of homeopathy to split homeopathy into two part i.e. as "Material Homeopathy with measurable material presence" and Energetic Homeopathy without measurable material presence. About effecacy by diluted material doses, we may be having basis as indicated by "hormesis"..Stimulating effect by weak stimuli.
    Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
    Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

    Comment


    • #3
      In view of above, In short, we can re-think on:-

      Unnatural energetic stimulations by hetrogenous remedies and higher potencies. Means, Hetrogeneousity involved in homeopathy.

      Mushroming of remedies and theories.

      Very deep aggravations esp. from higher potencies and hetrogenous remedies.

      Possibility of Reversal of inherited or acquired tolerances, resistances, immunities adaptations and evolutions by deep effects of higher potenciesb in view of "need of the time" & changed atmosphere.

      Scientific validity of homeopathic remedies in lower and higher potencies.

      Homeopathic limitations.
      Last edited by kayveeh; 19th August 2007, 04:01 AM. Reason: edited to add and enhance last line
      Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
      Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

      Comment


      • #4
        Two more issues came to my mind:-

        Homeopathic limitations:- It is indicated that;

        "Does homoeopathy have any limitations?
        Yes, like any other system of medicine, homeopathy also has it's own limitations.For eg.a surgical problem which has progressed far beyond its initial stages might not respond to homoeopathy.Similarly some sudden life threatening situations like heart attacks,paralytic strokes,diabetic comas etc. might have to be initially treated with allopathy, till the patient is out of danger. Besides, there is still a debate on whether some specific infections should be treated by allopathy or homoeopathy eg.TB,typhoid & malaria. "

        In view of above should we consider homeopathy and modern conventional system are complementary or supplementry to each other or just homeopathy is dependant on allopathy due to its limitations?

        Either it can be true that there are some limitations of any system and one system may not be "absolute & complete" so other system is needed OR prevailent atmosphere and popularity is need to be considered. One adverse outcome in homopathy and other CAMs can be accounted whereas several adverse outcomes may not be accounted in comparetively more acceptable and popular conventional system.

        In such thought, how adversities from homeopathic treatments can be compared with conventional system esp. in life threatening and serious conditions?

        Non-pure medicine based treatments--surgeory, supplements, replacements, food manipulations, measuring/testing technologies, excercises, classical prescriptions...all other than real medicines devloped by conventional system may not be a property of conventional system, so common to all system, because if CAMs would had given chances and means, mostly they would had also added these other technologies than pure medicines to their system.

        Better carrier:- Water, alcohol and lactose are considered as carreirs of homeopathic effects. In many scientific discussions, "water regain its origional strucure/shape after changing its structure soon or water/liqids are unable to maintain changed structure for proloned time" was made an issue in considering validity of storing homeopathic informations. Probably, being liquid, alcohol may also behave similarily.

        On lactose side, being solid, its different inter/intramolecular structural changes and particle sizes changed during potentization process specifically, can be maintained for prolonged time.

        Thogugh homeopathic effects are observed and experiances with water and alocohol used when carreies but in view of scientic understandings and validity, which substance out of water, alcohol and lactose can serve as a better carrier substance for carrying and validating homeopathic effects, truely and scientifically?
        Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
        Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

        Comment


        • #5
          Measurable Homeopathy:- Can outcome from lower potencies and homogenous individual/specifc body's mineral based remedies show clinical and pathological measurable results, consistently? Probably, positive measurable results may be possible by lower potencies and homogenous remedies. Non-Presence of raw remedy substances, higher potencies and hetrogenous substances with inconsistent outcome in scientific studies, usually make mouth of skeptics stronger. Lower potencies and homogenous substances based remedies, with consideration of hormesis or lower stimuli has more physiological stimulations, can make their mouth weaker due to presence or raw remedy substances and relevances with the impact on body's biochemistry in current medical understandings. Eg; Nat Mur may effect Body's Sodium/Chloride, water. blood pressure and other relevant physiology to NaCl.
          Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
          Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

          Comment


          • #6
            This can also be an Issue

            Composition of Homeopathic Remedies

            We have many complex constituent based remedies esp. organic raw substance based remedies from plants and animals. Effects on Proving and on patient's application is not calculative/measurable but observational, just based on symptoms. This may name homeopathy as "a healing art" not "a healing science". In view of many many theories, remedies, variations in diseases and individuals, there can be many chances of mistakes in prescripions due to overcapacity of a single normal brain to incorporate all these at a time on case taking.

            In view of above, if chemical composition of complex constituents based remedies is analysed and net effect from them is calculated (alike net effects from any food is calculated) and incorporated in homeopathic understandings, can it make homeopathy calculative and measurable or a "Scientific healing system"? Can it also ease homeopath's work and reduce misprescriptions?
            http://www.otherhealth.com/showthrea...7023#post77023
            Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
            Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

            Comment


            • #7
              Organic & Inorganic Constituents : Any organic raw remedy substance can constitute both organic and inorganic chamicals. Carbohydrates, Fats & Protiens are organic substances and have structural and functional roles. Salts and minerals, Sodium, Potassium, Iron, Magnessium, Calcium, phosphorus, sulphur, NaCl,KCl etc. are elementary particles and salts. If we understand deeply, Biochemic system, systematically introduced by Dr. Sch. is based on inorganic chemicals/salts, obiously if we don't consider lactose part in any tissue remedy as the part of real remedy's effects producing substance. Dr. Sch. could understand such basis on studying composition of ash of human's body and of its different parts, in which organic basis might had been either lost as gas or degraded as carbon etc.. Probably, our body's functional basis is two sided, organic and inorganic.

              Furthur, in view of thermodynamic equilibrium, energy transfer takes place from higher level to lower level and organic substances are commonly constitute lower numbered elements, H, O, C & N whereas inorganic salts the higher numbered in periodic table, we can think about possible energy exchange in such consideration.

              Moreover, origional composition and structure of organic substances in any organic based remedy can be lost as a result of potentization process.

              Under above consideration, can we think that, inorganic part or inorganic constituents in any organic substance (Plants and animals) based remedy, can really be effect producing, not the organic ones? If yes, don't we complicate the matter by so many remedies? We need chemical analysis of constituents of organic/complex based remedies badly.
              Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
              Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

              Comment


              • #8
                Efficacy of/from remedies : One issue had kept me engaged and much confused i.e. about efficacy of homeopathic and biochemic remedies. Occasionally,I do read homeopathic forums and internet referances about hardship and much involvement in selecting correct remedy based on totality. Inspite of this, there can be much possibilties that selected remedy may not show such efficacy as calculated/expected WHEREAS I don't observe such variations in case of biochemic tissue salts, and these often show needed efficacy as calculated or expected. I previously thought, it may be due to minimum remedies & theories based, homogenous, lower potencies etc. but couldn't understand real logic behind such variations in efficacies between two. However, during posting in this topic, I feel, I could be able to understand logic behind such variations, which I indicate below for your understanding and comments:-

                Natural is defined as: based on an inherent sense of right and wrong
                2 a : being in accordance with or determined by nature..


                Natural to us will be, being in accordance with or determined by nature for us or which is based on our inherent sense of right and wrong.

                In short, we can translate "natural to us" as to which, we are evolved or habitual, which our body system can recognize and process accordingly and rightly (homogenous). Unnatural to us will be opposite to it..to which our body can be unbale to recognize and process rightly (hetrogenous). In such consideration, we can also interpret it as homogenous and hetrogenous substances respectively.

                Furthur, we can think logically that, remedies esp. in higher potencies can have delicate effects, which can be our body's choice dependant, so can be over-powered/rided by our body's defence mechanism, if not needed or not suitable to body instead of concentrated chemical substances which can may be able to over-power/ride body's defence system. Former can be a consideration of natural and later as un-natural to us.

                Anyway, the problem can be with remedies with hetrogenous substances, which we had never taken or remained rarely exposed to these so rarely remained natural to us, of which our body may not be having inherant sense of right and wrong and to which our body is not yet evolved or become habitual--in short, unnatural to us.

                Since, our body should be able to over-power/ride delicate effects from higher potencies, can't it be possible that hetrogenous effects from hetrogenous substance based remedies is not invited, accepted or not processod by body's system and straight away rejected resulting in-effectiveness or variable effectiveness from that remedy Wheereas homogenous stimuli from homogenous based remedies are welcomed, accepted and suitably well processod by our body?

                Though above looks bit horrible, but positive angle to this can be about selecting remedy based on totality as per the need of body, making it acceptable to body system partly or fully, minimal presence of substance which may not be considered as hetrogenous(our body, still may be having few atoms or molecules of every substance/elements/salts in nature to which such hetrogenous substances are composed, and so our body may not take these as hetrogenous. Such aspect can better be understood by deep understanding the variations in efficacy of different type of remedies (homo/hetro-genous) in different potencies on applications.

                Best wishes.
                Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thought no contribution and comments from other members, still I can see total views.

                  Pre-empowering/loading the atients:- Skeptics do reap by opposing dynamic effects from potenised remedies by placebo, wishful thinking, perception terms etc. Few had indicated that positive effects from such placebo can even be more than 70%.
                  As indicated earlier in other topic, that there is a physical, physiological or scientific basis of placebo i.e. dopamine release in brain. As such, there should be a physical basis to all emotions and psychlogical stimulations--placebo, nocebo, perception, wishful thinking, faith, no faith, dysfaith etc.

                  Though, these are real effects to which preceived thoughts, believes, skepticism and emotions serve as stimuli, still skeptics may reap on these.

                  Dynamic effects from potentized remedies are delicate/gentle but deep, permanent and natural(esp. from homogenous constituents) to which, mostly, our body's system should be able to either accept and process OR reject. Means, body should be able to process these effects as per our need and wish. It looks quite logical that faith, belief, wishful thinking by perception can add to such real but delicate effects and opposite to it dysfaith can cause rejection or diluting such delicate effects. In short, dynamic real effects from potencies can be body's system and wishful thinking by perception's dependant.

                  In other CAMs and spritual systems, faith, respect, wishful thinking etc. are much advocated, insisted, pursued and followed to reap real and increased benefits from their stimulis.

                  Under above thoughts:-

                  Whether wishful thinking by pre-loading patients with faith and perception of expected benefits and ongoing positive process of healing from the homeopathic applications can enhance efficacy of remedies o not?

                  To make it more calculative, I hypothetically give 1 point to real effects, 1 each to faith & positive perception, 0 each to neutral faith & no perception, minus -1 each to dysfaith and minus perception (though these points can vary depending upon senstivities to these effects). By these points, we can calculate everything--real effects, believer effects, pre-loading effects and skeptics effects. I do observe and feel such enhanced results on both side.
                  Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                  Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Kayveeh,
                    This bulletin board, about 4 years ago was very busy and plenty of people posted. I think you will find that less and less reply to posts now. I have an idea why but this is not my reason for writing.
                    What is the law of simplex?
                    Where are you getting this from? Are you a student?
                    Maybe you're spelling it differently and I don't quite understand. Could you let me know what reference you are quoting?
                    Law of similars.....yes...you eat onion, your eyes swell up, hayfever, eye probs= alium cepa.
                    law of minimum...give the minimum dose needed to get the patient better.
                    For instance only one tablet, if one tablet will do it.
                    My first experience was using ONE dose of 6c Aconite.
                    Where do you live?
                    I live in the UK in Bath and practice from home, in a clinic and as a volunteer in a drugs project using Homeopathy to help clients detox so I have quite a lot of experience of Homeopathy in actual practice.
                    Sorry for the questions but its such a long post I thought I'd start with the things that hit me the most
                    IN Peace
                    Mary
                    www.maryenglish.co.uk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello,

                      I tried to give my confusions and thoughts on many issues. If you will go on reading and understanding, you can understand these. Basically, I understand and use tissue remedies, I also try to understand homeopathy but many points make me confuesd, as I tried to indicate in this topic for members comments. But unfortunetely there are no replies. So I am just posting, whatever came and comes to my mind.

                      Best wishes.
                      Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                      Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hetrogenousity Vs. Homogenousity:- As I thought, there can be a variation in naturality to us by the application of these two type of substances. In material dose, hetrogenous substances may cause adverse reactions--digestive disorders, antigenic/allergenic activities, inflammatory and infectious activites, hypersenstivities--allergies, autoimmunities etc. In both types, if dose is odd (in chemical(concentrated medicines) and in energy(potentised)), it can also be thought as unnatural for body because our body had never sensed these previously and consistently. Though, such ODD effectes can also be thought as stimulating differentiating activities (alike shocking effect, inflammation etc.), which can either be beneficial or harming. In homogenous, food/nutritional type substances, there can be one ODD, whereas two ODDs in case of hetrogenous type substances in potencies. As such, we may need to evaluate this aspect seriously.
                        Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                        Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kayveeh View Post
                          ...Cotd.

                          Scientific Validity of Homeopathy:- Dynamic effects from higher potencies are well observed and experianced by homeopathic community but not by scientific community, consitently in DBPC studies. Furthur science of homeopathic effects and presence of raw remedies substances in higher potencies remained unmeasurable, a truth, miss or weakness as per their current measurable technology of science. As such, homeopathic effects are interpreted as placebo effect by them and its legal and moral validity/existance may be based on "posing no harm". But still ,some basis of "time lapse" in giving the needed treatments can pop up anytime in view of inconsistency in outcome, non-presence of raw remedy substance, placebo effects, least side effects etc.

                          As such, can it be better and in the long term interest of homeopathy to split homeopathy into two part i.e. as "Material Homeopathy with measurable material presence" and Energetic Homeopathy without measurable material presence. About effecacy by diluted material doses, we may be having basis as indicated by "hormesis"..Stimulating effect by weak stimuli.
                          I think science had progressed and there's a better understanding of the energetic effects of the higher potencies. Unfortunately a lot of these studies seldom get quoted or even printed in the popular media. Here's one study and the abstract is given below :


                          INSTRUMENTAL MEASURING OF DIFFERENT HOMEOPATHIC DILUTIONS OF POTASSIUM IODIDE IN WATER
                          Igor Jerman, M.D., Sc.D., Full Professor of Theoretical Biology
                          Maja Berden, M.A. Biology
                          Metod Škarja, M.A. Physics
                          BION, Institute for Bioelectromagnetics and New Biology,
                          Celovška 264, 1000 LJUBLJANA, Slovenia


                          ABSTRACT:
                          Although more than 200 years have elapsed since the beginning of homeopathy and in spite of numerous confirmatory scientific experiments, the so-called memory of water is still a highly disputable and controversial theme in scientific circles. To make a contribution to solving this riddle, our research group tried to examine memory properties of water by the method of differential corona discharge Kirlian electrophotography of water-drop pairs. The method is based on a modified form of Kirlian photography with a subsequent thorough computer picture analysis. The potassium iodide (KI) mother solution (0.1M) was diluted in the standard way (without potentisation) or with potentisation (succussion by hand - by striking the vial 60 times against a large book as used traditionally) to 10-3M, 10-6M, 10-10M, 10-16M, 10-17M and 10-24M KI solutions. In the electrophotography method a drop of KI solution was compared with a drop of control water. To get a dependable system of results we comparedhomeopathic dilutions with ordinary distilled water, sham-potentised distilled water and non-potentised (standard) solutions. The results were analyzed by the Chi-square Goodness-of-fit test and the Sign test. They showed repeatable and statistically significant effects of concentration of KI dilutions as well as potentisation on the corona discharge process (from p < 0.05 to p < 0.001). This indicates that there is some physical basis of molecular (ionic) information imprinted into water.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hello chionggou,

                            Thanks. The following is the link for this full study;

                            http://lkm.fri.uni-lj.si/xaigor/slo/...strumental.htm

                            Though following site can be biased, still you can read skeptics view about Kirlon Photography on following link;

                            http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...s/kirlian.html

                            Best wishes.
                            Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
                            Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..Shiv Khera

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kayveeh View Post
                              Hello chionggou,

                              Thanks. The following is the link for this full study;

                              http://lkm.fri.uni-lj.si/xaigor/slo/...strumental.htm

                              Though following site can be biased, still you can read skeptics view about Kirlon Photography on following link;

                              http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...s/kirlian.html

                              Best wishes.
                              Hi Kayveeh,

                              I think that chap was railing against aura rather than kirlian photography. Kirlian photography is very technical and it does produce a charateristic signature given different substances. It is basically an interaction between the corona discharge field generated and the electromagnetic field of the subject to be photograph. So the result is scientifically valid.

                              There's another study that use the thermoluminescence property to determine if microdiluted LiCl and NaCl do show the characteristic spectrum of LiCl and NaCl at material dosage. An excerpt is given below and the source reference is given at the end.

                              ----------- Excerpt from http://www.sciy.org/blog/_archives/2...2/2826674.html -----

                              Now, physicist Louis Rey in Lausanne, Switzerland, has published a paper in the mainstream journal, Physica A, describing experiments that suggest water does have a memory of molecules that have been diluted away, as can be demonstrated by a relatively new physical technique that measures thermoluminescence.
                              In this technique, the material is ‘activated’ by irradiation at low temperature, with UV, X-rays, electron beams, or other high-energy sub-atomic particles. This causes electrons to come loose from the atoms and molecules, creating ‘electron-hole pairs’ that become separated and trapped at different energy levels.
                              Then, when the irradiated material is warmed up, it releases the absorbed energy and the trapped electrons and holes come together and recombine. This causes the release of a characteristic glow of light, peaking at different temperatures depending on the magnitude of the separation between electron and hole.
                              As a general rule, the phenomenon is observed in crystals with an ordered arrangement of atoms and molecules, but it is also seen in disordered materials such as glasses. In this mechanism, imperfections in the atomic/molecular lattice are considered to be the sites at which luminescence appears.
                              Rey decided to use the technique to investigate water, starting with heavy water or deuterium oxide that’s been frozen into ice at a temperature of 77K. The absolute temperature scale (degree K, after Lord Kelvin) is used in science. (The zero degree K is equivalent to –273 C, and deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen which is twice as heavy as hydrogen).
                              As the ice warms up, a first peak of luminescence appears near 120K, and a second peak near 166 K. Heavy water gives a much stronger signal than water. In both cases, samples that were not irradiated gave no signals at all.
                              For both water and heavy water, the relative intensity of the thermoluminescence depends on the irradiation dose. There has been a suggestion that peak 2 comes from the hydrogen-bonded network within ice, whereas peak 1 comes from the individual molecules. This was confirmed by looking at a totally different material that is known to present strong hydrogen bonds, which showed a similar glow in the peak 2 region, but nothing in peak 1.
                              Rey then investigated what would happen when he dissolved some chemicals in the water and diluted it in steps of one hundred fold with vigorous stirring (as in the preparation of homeopathic remedies), until he reached a concentration of 10 to the power -30 g per centilitre, and compare that to the control that has not had any chemical dissolved in it and diluted in the same way.
                              The samples were frozen and activated with irradiation as usual.
                              Much to his surprise, when lithium chloride, LiCl, a chemical that would be expected to break hydrogen bonds between water molecules was added, and then diluted away, the thermoluminescent glow became reduced, but the reduction of peak 2 was greater relative to peak 1. Sodium chloride, NaCl, had the same effect albeit to a lesser degree.
                              It appears, therefore, that substances like LiCl and NaCl can modify the hydrogen-bonded network of water, and that this modification remains even when the molecules have been diluted away.
                              The fact that this ‘memory’ remains, in spite of, or because of vigorous stirring or shaking at successive dilutions, indicates that the ‘memory’ is by no means static, but depends on a dynamic process, perhaps a collective quantum excitation of water molecules that has a high degree of stability.
                              Source

                              Rey L. Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride. Physica A 2003, 323, 67-74.

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